A place to discuss all things ADM
#4816
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#4817
Burning Brakes
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Just like Rolex punishes their dealers for selling over MSRP, Porsche can do the same thing with their dealers. If the dealer sells for over MSRP and spec's the car for their own showroom to flip they lose future GT allocations. That will get stealers in line very quickly.
Rolex can do what they want and Porsche what they want. But when a SS Panda comes in, who’s going to get it? Someone willing to pay market value or someone who has bought many watches beforehand. At the end of the day, the dealer should have the discretion to choose what is best for its business.
#4818
RL Community Team
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I, and others, have asked to to keep things civil a few times.
And just because it happens other places at other times doesn't mean it has to happen everywhere all the time.
#4819
Burning Brakes
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Sometimes it feels like a TSA line in here haha
#4820
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You from Toronto? Have you been to Mosport track in last 5 years?
it’s littered everywhere with latest GT Porsche cars and super cars. Come join us![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I like my PTS and deviated stitching - doesn’t mean I C&C. Nothing wrong with a pretty GT or a pretty super car on track - also fun to drive them with winter tires driving in this tundra
it’s littered everywhere with latest GT Porsche cars and super cars. Come join us
![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I like my PTS and deviated stitching - doesn’t mean I C&C. Nothing wrong with a pretty GT or a pretty super car on track - also fun to drive them with winter tires driving in this tundra
![Wink](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
How many GT3 and 3RS are being used for track duty?
These are now sunday brunch cruisers and C&C queens...
PTS and deviated stitching > track alignment and tires.
Props to @raymort and the other select few who actually post up their track day escapades..
These are now sunday brunch cruisers and C&C queens...
PTS and deviated stitching > track alignment and tires.
Props to @raymort and the other select few who actually post up their track day escapades..
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Alex.M (02-08-2023)
#4821
RL Community Team
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Just like Rolex punishes their dealers for selling over MSRP, Porsche can do the same thing with their dealers. If the dealer sells for over MSRP and spec's the car for their own showroom to flip they lose future GT allocations. That will get stealers in line very quickly.
if a business sells a product at market value… why has this suddenly become ‘bad’.
Rolex can do what they want and Porsche what they want. But when a SS Panda comes in, who’s going to get it? Someone willing to pay market value or someone who has bought many watches beforehand. At the end of the day, the dealer should have the discretion to choose what is best for its business.
Rolex can do what they want and Porsche what they want. But when a SS Panda comes in, who’s going to get it? Someone willing to pay market value or someone who has bought many watches beforehand. At the end of the day, the dealer should have the discretion to choose what is best for its business.
Rolex AD (at least in the US) sell more than just one brand of watches; Rolex is just one of them. If that Rolex AD is willing to give their one allocation for, for example, a Steel Daytona, to a buyer it just means that person has bought other watches from them at MSRP (as opposed to a discount) like say a Zenith, or an Omega, or a Bvlgari (yuck). No one in their right mind is paying full fat MSRP for Zenith or a Bulgari unless there's a carrot at the end of that stick.
#4822
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But... there is so much demand for GT cars that many dealers can afford to **** off loyal customers because there will always be someone else to sell to. Porsche rewards dealers with extra cars / $$ if they sell within their territory... yet dealers still sell to out of state folks at ADM because they decided that is best for their business... and it probably is best because there's so much demand.
Also, a lottery system is going to **** off just as many people as the current setup. Imagine the guys willing to pay $50k more for a car and have had previous Porsche purposes lose out to the guy with a base Macan... not to mention if you only sell to current Porsche owners, how do you get new people into the brand w/o telling them to go buy stuff they don't want? Requiring to hold a GT car for a certain amount of time could make some sense depending on what the penalty for selling too quickly is, but 2 years is a looong time... maybe more like 6 months. just my thoughts
You know what isnt covered here and why Porsche probably doesnt really do much about it beyond whatever they are doing? A LOT of guys who say they should be the chosen ones tend to be the ones who end up selling "for some extenuating circumstance", and its happened here on even rennlist plenty.
1-Porsche could easily get the vin on all 130 GT3’s for sale and the cars with near zero mileage could be traced back to the dealer and the customer that sold the car and Porsche could punish the dealer with fewer allocations and ban the customer across all dealers from buying GT cars.
2-I am surprised Porsche does not just raise the MSRP price and keep the premium for themselves rather than give these dollars to dealers or flippers or even “real” owners.
3-conclusion- become a long term customer at a Porsche dealer- trade cars back to them - for new allocations and join PCA and become active also and you will get offered cars at msrp.
2-I am surprised Porsche does not just raise the MSRP price and keep the premium for themselves rather than give these dollars to dealers or flippers or even “real” owners.
3-conclusion- become a long term customer at a Porsche dealer- trade cars back to them - for new allocations and join PCA and become active also and you will get offered cars at msrp.
2-Yes. That would be a smarter move for Porsche
3-For some of us it is difficult to have a long term relationship with the local dealer. For example, I have moved to different cities/countries in last 2 decades due to work. Does that mean I am a bad, unworthy customer? In the eyes of Porsche, I have a great 911 ownership history. In the eyes of my local dealer, I have only bought a TTS. This is where PCNA could help.
IMO, a 992 GT3 is not a $250k+ car (today's dollars) in the long run. That price filters out a high percentage of the people looking for a track car, and many people willing to track a car in that price range will be looking at 911 race cars and other race cars. For road use, that price would put the GT3 in competition with exotics, such as new and used McLarens.
Just like Rolex punishes their dealers for selling over MSRP, Porsche can do the same thing with their dealers. If the dealer sells for over MSRP and spec's the car for their own showroom to flip they lose future GT allocations. That will get stealers in line very quickly.
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Manifold (02-09-2023),
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#4823
RL Community Team
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Instead of coming to RL and preaching to PCNA or PAG what to do (or not to do) with respect to prices and dealer tactics, the only way that PCNA or PAG will change their current practices is if people stop buying Porsche's, not just GT cars, but all Porsche's.
This thread right here is Exhibit 1 as to why PCNA or PAG has absolutely no incentive to change the current model.
So until people stop buying cars from Stuttgart, Porsche will continue to enjoy its stellar profits. And nothing will change.
This thread right here is Exhibit 1 as to why PCNA or PAG has absolutely no incentive to change the current model.
So until people stop buying cars from Stuttgart, Porsche will continue to enjoy its stellar profits. And nothing will change.
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DodoBrd (02-09-2023)
#4824
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+1. I love Porsche but given PCNA/Porsche doesn't care about the issues with the allocation system, I am considering other brands. Has anyone had a GT3 AND a MB GTR or a 600LT? Interested in the ownership experience for these other great cars.
#4825
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There's a recent thread on the GT3 vs MB GTR on here if you search.
600LT I haven't owned but a good friend of mine had one for a while. Good car, not great. If I was going to buy a McLaren, it wouldn't be the one I would buy (I'd probably go 720S, I loved driving that), but I've heard so many horror stories about owning them longer term, I'd personally stay away. I'm sure there's lots of happy folks, but of the relatively few people I know who have owned them, too high a percentage have had issues for me to feel good about dropping that kind of money on one.
#4826
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So the options for distributing GT car allocations are:
- Guys who buy one very expensive Porsche (VIPs) are always at the front of the line to get GT cars at MSRP, and they can flip after holding them for a little while
- They go to the highest bidders (and the dealers keep the extra profit)
- They go to repeat customers at MSRP (so you can't have one if you're not a repeat customer)
- They're distributed at MSRP according to a lottery system (so it's a matter of luck, and your chances go down as more people join the lottery); could modify this with a rule like 'no one gets a GT car allocation more often than every X years', and you never get an allocation again if you flip the car within X years
I think that each of these options would make a lot of people unhappy, but I think the last option would be perceived by most people as the 'fairest'.
- Guys who buy one very expensive Porsche (VIPs) are always at the front of the line to get GT cars at MSRP, and they can flip after holding them for a little while
- They go to the highest bidders (and the dealers keep the extra profit)
- They go to repeat customers at MSRP (so you can't have one if you're not a repeat customer)
- They're distributed at MSRP according to a lottery system (so it's a matter of luck, and your chances go down as more people join the lottery); could modify this with a rule like 'no one gets a GT car allocation more often than every X years', and you never get an allocation again if you flip the car within X years
I think that each of these options would make a lot of people unhappy, but I think the last option would be perceived by most people as the 'fairest'.
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Yargk (02-13-2023)
#4827
Burning Brakes
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So the options for distributing GT car allocations are:
- Guys who buy one very expensive Porsche (VIPs) are always at the front of the line to get GT cars at MSRP, and they can flip after holding them for a little while
- They go to the highest bidders (and the dealers keep the extra profit)
- They go to repeat customers at MSRP (so you can't have one if you're not a repeat customer)
- They're distributed at MSRP according to a lottery system (so it's a matter of luck, and your chances go down as more people join the lottery); could modify this with a rule like 'no one gets a GT car allocation more often than every X years', and you never get an allocation again if you flip the car within X years
I think that each of these options would make a lot of people unhappy, but I think the last option would be perceived by most people as the 'fairest'.
- Guys who buy one very expensive Porsche (VIPs) are always at the front of the line to get GT cars at MSRP, and they can flip after holding them for a little while
- They go to the highest bidders (and the dealers keep the extra profit)
- They go to repeat customers at MSRP (so you can't have one if you're not a repeat customer)
- They're distributed at MSRP according to a lottery system (so it's a matter of luck, and your chances go down as more people join the lottery); could modify this with a rule like 'no one gets a GT car allocation more often than every X years', and you never get an allocation again if you flip the car within X years
I think that each of these options would make a lot of people unhappy, but I think the last option would be perceived by most people as the 'fairest'.
Dealer allocates to those on a ‘list’ at MSRP (after taking care of their VIPs/good customers). I’ve been able to secure 2 GT3s at MSRP at 2 different dealers by being on a list. No strings attached / no trades / no buying regular cars. Once you take delivery of the GT3, it’s a perfect opportunity to keep doing business with them.
This is a dying way though, a few years ago 3 of the 4 dealers in my area did things this way, now only 1. The others go to repeat customers at MSRP or folks willing to buy regular cars at MSRP.
#4829
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Let’s play this out though to other areas - you are in real estate I believe? So let’s say you happen to be able to list a few homes in a very popular neighborhood - you know the neighborhood is popular and the homes are high quality so you set the price accordingly but then for whatever reason the neighborhood gets way way more popular. You are essentially saying you are going to keep those homes at the list price (and also tell your clients how you are going to keep them at list price even though they could have done much better)?
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Manifold (02-09-2023)
#4830
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Comparing selling homes to selling watches and cars is comparing apples to oranges. There's no "manufacturer" and "dealers" in the real estate market that control a material supply (yes you have home builders but they have to compete against resale inventory) like there is with watches and cars. Also, a home is primarily considered to be a necessity that is a commodity (you have to live somewhere unless you want to live in the woods or in a box under the freeway) where luxury cars and watches are luxury goods that are discretionary purchases.
Also (more importantly) I think it’s funny to say we should set fixed prices for luxury goods but for goods that are necessities they shouldn’t be regulated (so it’s cool for a real estate agent to screw over a poor family looking to buy a home but don’t the dealerships dare screw over a rich guy looking for a rare Porsche)? That doesn’t make sense - even though I disagree, I could see arguments for setting fixed prices for necessities (standard housing, certain food, etc - people need those things to live) but not Porsches. It’s just that IMHO the free market should apply to pretty much all things (and yes I get there are plenty of downsides to that).
Last edited by av12345; 02-09-2023 at 02:26 PM.