DodoBrd

you realize you’re becoming one of those guys that continues to fantasize realities to fit your arguments?

Carlo_Carrera

Dealers only have the upper hand if demand exceeds supply. Nobody needs a 911 to live, it is a pure luxury good. You can't (realistically) live in it and you can get around town in a Toyota Corolla. If people stop paying these excessive ADMs they will disappear, it is just that simple.

Manifold

There is some lack of transparency in the prices that cars are selling for, and this applies to both buyers and sellers. But I agree that it comes down to demand far exceeding supply (for now). We know that some cars are selling to repeat buyers at MSRP, and some are being sold with substantial ADM. If you have to pay ADM and don’t like the price, just don’t buy it.

mass27

Yes, 10 minutes after his commission check cleared from the transaction.

Carlo_Carrera

I think it would be best to ease up on the personal comments. Thanks.

av12345

I do find the comparison between real estate and car sales quite interesting (/funny). In my mind (and how I’ve approached deals) is that real estate agents and car salespeople (/dealers) are in the exact same camp and on a whole have similar sales practices (not saying all are like that - there are some good agents and dealers that I now know). But on average I know they are trying to squeeze me as much as possible and on the other hand I’m trying to get as much as possible for as little as possible (and I’m ok with that as long as there are not fraudulent practices involved). Let’s just call a spade a spade: Buyers are always looking to save a $ and sellers are all looking to make a $. To be honest though, in my experience, and definitely not saying this is true for others, the sellers’ agents in real estate have been the worst (/ most questionable) to deal with. Maybe that is just because it’s easier for me to call BS with a dealer because I know the product / market a bit better?

Diablo Dude

Bingo.

hitmonlee

Depends on which side of the transaction you are. If you are the seller, wouldn't you want your agent to squeeze the buyer as much as possible? A seller's agent's interest actually aligns with the seller's, while a buyer's agent's interest contradicts with the buyer's.

Manifold

No one who's buying or selling something should be maligned for trying to get the best deal they can, provided that they're not doing anything fraudulent. Porsche dealers have been making big profits not because of collusion or intentional market distortion, but because enough of us buyers are bidding up the prices to get the cars. And I don't blame Porsche for not gearing up to increase supply if they're trying to balance long-term supply and demand (or have slight excess demand) and believe that we're currently in a demand bubble, which I think we are. I do expect demand and prices to come down, but it may take more than a year or a substantial fear-inducing recession for that to happen.

Carlo_Carrera

Agreed. At some point most everyone who really wants and can afford the 911 of their dreams will have one.

Diablo Dude

To be quite frank, I think that's pretty obvious.
And the previous poster that you quoted literally said as much.

ipse dixit

https://www.businesslend.com/automob...-remain-tight/

Diablo Dude

It's interesting to note that while chip companies are swimming in inventory of memory chips, the chips that go into automobiles are still in tight supply and difficult to source.

These are chips that have extremely long lead times (26 weeks) due to their complexity. During Covid, chip suppliers diverted resources away from automotive and towards consumer electronics given people working from home. But demand for new vehicles was more resilient than expected during the shutdowns and chip suppliers were still continuing to divert resources away from automotive. It made for a horrible supply/demand situation.

Fast forward to 2023 and these traditional automotive chip suppliers are still trying to play "catch-up".
In other news:

Wolfspeed to build $3-bln EV chip plant in Germany, subsidy approval expected in months | Reuters

av12345

100% agree with you - in my experience though I’ve just seen some sellers’ agents say / do some very questionable things but I do agree they should aim
to get the highest price possible (just like salespeople for a dealer should aim to get the highest price possible). Also agree on the buyers agent actually having conflicting interests but in my experience I just use them because I need them to complete the transaction - I don’t bother relying on them to get a better price - I do that pretty much on my own.

usctrojanGT3

The best transaction is where everyone feels a little pain like where a seller gives, buyer gives, and an agent chips in to bridge an small gaps. I don't focus on transactions, I focus on relationships so the better price and better home (one that will have a better chance to appreciate in time) I get for my buyers the better I do later because they will be a repeat client and provide a ton of referrals. Good agents focus on the relationships, not the transactions.