DodoBrd

Not to mention he has to keep paying a bunch of small ADMs on non-GT and GT cars every year to keep them coming

Yet, when someone wants to skip the line to get a limited SC he calls them ‘dumb’

Yargk

Not trying to call anyone dumb either, but I'm a little flummoxed how it isn't clear what I was trying to say in my last post. Because the % adjustment on houses was smaller than the % some "over"paid on GT3s AND because the reason for the peaks are different (one is due to structural housing supply issues that will continue to be a problem until millions of units are produced and the other is due to dealers hoarding and gouging on cars until the next one comes) wealthy people purchasing houses is NOT like wealthy people purchasing GT3s. It's a bad analogy.

It's like comparing a more free market, like perhaps the lithium market something where there's lots of competition, like dishwashers, and a diamond market, for which a relatively small group of sellers price fix. Just because prices go up and down doesn't mean the markets are comparable and doesn't mean that they are both necessarily "free markets." It's more complicated than that.

Yargk

I don't think it is. See post above. Free market is when there are enough sellers that there can never be a big enough group of them holding stock to affect the price. If enough sellers can drive up the price by holding stock (as dealers have done), then it's not really a free market because the sellers have too much market control. This isn't the kind of capitalism that makes the free world great with innovation and efficiency. That capitalism more relates to a competitive marketplace of products that pits Porsches vs. the best from BMW, Mac, Merc, etc. What innovation comes from holding stock?

usctrojanGT3

Exactly, the Porsche new car market is basically a cartel controlled by dealers...some good and more bad. The real estate market isn't controlled by a cartel and I'd argue that it is much more of an efficient capitalist market than the new car market.

usctrojanGT3

Let's see....between the ADMs that I would have had to paid for a Touring and a GT4RS (call it $75k each) I saved enough money to purchase a Taycan GTS ST and still have money for having it shipped to me.

DodoBrd

ok… now do the part when you sell it back to them

2 sides to every transaction

DodoBrd

dealers are now a cartel…?? OK!!

tell me how dealers control production of Porsches?

do they really control pricing? If so, why are ppl already getting discounts on SUVs?

Diablo Dude

Are you really going to forget about all of those Porsches that you traded back into the dealership in Texas over the last decade for a "lowball" price in order to continue to purchase at MSRP?
We all know that that's just another way of paying an ADM. But you conveniently ignore that unless someone points it out.

C'Mon man.
Put the f-ing pom poms down for a moment and be real.

usctrojanGT3

Dealers can control supply to the market (us) because we can't buy directly from the manufacturer. Porsche doesn't force the dealers to provide allocations to buyers hence why some stealers spec their own cars to sell to the highest bidder.

usctrojanGT3

Lowball offers? haha Yeah I got less than they sold the cars for but I got MSRP for my GT4 and my GT3RS. Considering that I don't have to beg, hope, gravel, or plead for an MSRP GT allocation from them which comes to me when it's my turn in line it's only fair for me to sell them the car back and they are very fair with the prices that they offer me. They sold the GT4 for $22k over MSRP with a CPO and they sold the GT3RS for $28k over MSRP with a CPO. I would have never gotten $22k over or $28k over at the time, maybe $15k and $20k over. So sure, I paid a $15k ADM for my GT4RS and a $20k ADM for my Touring.

Carlo_Carrera

It is simply the free market at work.

ipse dixit

No, sorry, my friend, that's not how it works.

Not in real life, or on Rennlist.

AlexCeres

you guys. Always missing the forest for the trees. This problem is way way simpler. Demand > supply. By a lot for GT products. None of this stuff about the
dealers is relevant. You don’t have significant negotiating power because there are still 3 guys ready to take your place, if not more. Dealers aren’t hoarding cars. They’re selling them all. Porsche simply isn’t manufacturing enough for the current demand at these price levels.

usctrojanGT3

All dealers are playing fair because they never lie or BS and it is a free market with full and transparent price discovery with zero collusion, got it...I was wrong all along sorry.

Ascend

Car price is set mostly by free market but dealers do have an upper hand. Unlike real estate sales, the actual sale value of car sold from dealer to seller is not public and dealers do have an upper hand in being able to BS to customers on previous sales price or how scarce the car is (you know the usual dealer BS such as last of NA or porsche isnt making it anymore and etc)


For example, the 911 SC could have been sold at much lower price to local repeat customer who buys 30+ cars from the dealership but all we know is it asked 250k+ adm and it sold, so it sets the market price of other SC as 450k even though we never know it sold for that.