A place to discuss all things ADM
#4741
Burning Brakes
you realize you’re becoming one of those guys that continues to fantasize realities to fit your arguments?
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AlexCeres (02-02-2023),
Diablo Dude (02-02-2023)
#4742
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Manifold (02-02-2023)
#4743
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There is some lack of transparency in the prices that cars are selling for, and this applies to both buyers and sellers. But I agree that it comes down to demand far exceeding supply (for now). We know that some cars are selling to repeat buyers at MSRP, and some are being sold with substantial ADM. If you have to pay ADM and don’t like the price, just don’t buy it.
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Carlo_Carrera (02-02-2023)
#4744
#4745
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I think it would be best to ease up on the personal comments. Thanks.
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#4746
I do find the comparison between real estate and car sales quite interesting (/funny). In my mind (and how I’ve approached deals) is that real estate agents and car salespeople (/dealers) are in the exact same camp and on a whole have similar sales practices (not saying all are like that - there are some good agents and dealers that I now know). But on average I know they are trying to squeeze me as much as possible and on the other hand I’m trying to get as much as possible for as little as possible (and I’m ok with that as long as there are not fraudulent practices involved). Let’s just call a spade a spade: Buyers are always looking to save a $ and sellers are all looking to make a $. To be honest though, in my experience, and definitely not saying this is true for others, the sellers’ agents in real estate have been the worst (/ most questionable) to deal with. Maybe that is just because it’s easier for me to call BS with a dealer because I know the product / market a bit better?
Last edited by av12345; 02-02-2023 at 11:41 AM.
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Peruna (02-02-2023)
#4747
Race Car
you guys. Always missing the forest for the trees. This problem is way way simpler. Demand > supply. By a lot for GT products. None of this stuff about the
dealers is relevant. You don’t have significant negotiating power because there are still 3 guys ready to take your place, if not more. Dealers aren’t hoarding cars.
They’re selling them all.
Porsche simply isn’t manufacturing enough for the current demand at these price levels.
dealers is relevant. You don’t have significant negotiating power because there are still 3 guys ready to take your place, if not more. Dealers aren’t hoarding cars.
They’re selling them all.
Porsche simply isn’t manufacturing enough for the current demand at these price levels.
#4748
#4749
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No one who's buying or selling something should be maligned for trying to get the best deal they can, provided that they're not doing anything fraudulent. Porsche dealers have been making big profits not because of collusion or intentional market distortion, but because enough of us buyers are bidding up the prices to get the cars. And I don't blame Porsche for not gearing up to increase supply if they're trying to balance long-term supply and demand (or have slight excess demand) and believe that we're currently in a demand bubble, which I think we are. I do expect demand and prices to come down, but it may take more than a year or a substantial fear-inducing recession for that to happen.
#4750
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Last edited by Carlo_Carrera; 02-03-2023 at 09:44 AM.
#4751
Race Car
Depends on which side of the transaction you are. If you are the seller, wouldn't you want your agent to squeeze the buyer as much as possible? A seller's agent's interest actually aligns with the seller's, while a buyer's agent's interest contradicts with the buyer's.
And the previous poster that you quoted literally said as much.
#4753
Race Car
It's interesting to note that while chip companies are swimming in inventory of memory chips, the chips that go into automobiles are still in tight supply and difficult to source.
These are chips that have extremely long lead times (26 weeks) due to their complexity. During Covid, chip suppliers diverted resources away from automotive and towards consumer electronics given people working from home. But demand for new vehicles was more resilient than expected during the shutdowns and chip suppliers were still continuing to divert resources away from automotive. It made for a horrible supply/demand situation.
Fast forward to 2023 and these traditional automotive chip suppliers are still trying to play "catch-up".
In other news:
Wolfspeed to build $3-bln EV chip plant in Germany, subsidy approval expected in months | Reuters
These are chips that have extremely long lead times (26 weeks) due to their complexity. During Covid, chip suppliers diverted resources away from automotive and towards consumer electronics given people working from home. But demand for new vehicles was more resilient than expected during the shutdowns and chip suppliers were still continuing to divert resources away from automotive. It made for a horrible supply/demand situation.
Fast forward to 2023 and these traditional automotive chip suppliers are still trying to play "catch-up".
In other news:
Wolfspeed to build $3-bln EV chip plant in Germany, subsidy approval expected in months | Reuters
Last edited by Diablo Dude; 02-02-2023 at 03:45 PM.
#4754
Depends on which side of the transaction you are. If you are the seller, wouldn't you want your agent to squeeze the buyer as much as possible? A seller's agent's interest actually aligns with the seller's, while a buyer's agent's interest contradicts with the buyer's.
to get the highest price possible (just like salespeople for a dealer should aim to get the highest price possible). Also agree on the buyers agent actually having conflicting interests but in my experience I just use them because I need them to complete the transaction - I don’t bother relying on them to get a better price - I do that pretty much on my own.
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Manifold (02-02-2023)
#4755
Depends on which side of the transaction you are. If you are the seller, wouldn't you want your agent to squeeze the buyer as much as possible? A seller's agent's interest actually aligns with the seller's, while a buyer's agent's interest contradicts with the buyer's.