A place to discuss all things ADM
#4726
Burning Brakes
Yet, when someone wants to skip the line to get a limited SC he calls them ‘dumb’
#4727
Rennlist Member
It's like comparing a more free market, like perhaps the lithium market something where there's lots of competition, like dishwashers, and a diamond market, for which a relatively small group of sellers price fix. Just because prices go up and down doesn't mean the markets are comparable and doesn't mean that they are both necessarily "free markets." It's more complicated than that.
Last edited by Yargk; 02-01-2023 at 10:11 PM.
The following 2 users liked this post by Yargk:
EMdoc (02-02-2023),
usctrojanGT3 (02-01-2023)
#4728
Rennlist Member
I don't think it is. See post above. Free market is when there are enough sellers that there can never be a big enough group of them holding stock to affect the price. If enough sellers can drive up the price by holding stock (as dealers have done), then it's not really a free market because the sellers have too much market control. This isn't the kind of capitalism that makes the free world great with innovation and efficiency. That capitalism more relates to a competitive marketplace of products that pits Porsches vs. the best from BMW, Mac, Merc, etc. What innovation comes from holding stock?
Last edited by Yargk; 02-01-2023 at 09:48 PM.
The following 2 users liked this post by Yargk:
EMdoc (02-02-2023),
usctrojanGT3 (02-01-2023)
#4729
I don't think it is. See post above. Free market is when there are enough sellers that there can never be a big enough group of them holding stock to affect the price. If enough sellers can drive up the price by holding stock (as dealers have done), then it's not really a free market because the sellers have too much market control. This isn't the kind of capitalism that makes the free world great with innovation and efficiency. That capitalism more relates to a competitive marketplace of products that pits Porsches vs. the best from BMW, Mac, Merc, etc. What innovation comes from holding stock?
#4730
Let's see....between the ADMs that I would have had to paid for a Touring and a GT4RS (call it $75k each) I saved enough money to purchase a Taycan GTS ST and still have money for having it shipped to me.
#4731
Burning Brakes
2 sides to every transaction
The following users liked this post:
AlexCeres (02-02-2023)
#4732
Burning Brakes
tell me how dealers control production of Porsches?
do they really control pricing? If so, why are ppl already getting discounts on SUVs?
The following users liked this post:
AlexCeres (02-02-2023)
#4733
Race Car
We all know that that's just another way of paying an ADM. But you conveniently ignore that unless someone points it out.
C'Mon man.
Put the f-ing pom poms down for a moment and be real.
#4734
Dealers can control supply to the market (us) because we can't buy directly from the manufacturer. Porsche doesn't force the dealers to provide allocations to buyers hence why some stealers spec their own cars to sell to the highest bidder.
#4735
Are you really going to forget about all of those Porsches that you traded back into the dealership in Texas over the last decade for a "lowball" price in order to continue to purchase at MSRP?
We all know that that's just another way of paying an ADM. But you conveniently ignore that unless someone points it out.
C'Mon man.
Put the f-ing pom poms down for a moment and be real.
We all know that that's just another way of paying an ADM. But you conveniently ignore that unless someone points it out.
C'Mon man.
Put the f-ing pom poms down for a moment and be real.
#4736
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I don't think it is. See post above. Free market is when there are enough sellers that there can never be a big enough group of them holding stock to affect the price. If enough sellers can drive up the price by holding stock (as dealers have done), then it's not really a free market because the sellers have too much market control. This isn't the kind of capitalism that makes the free world great with innovation and efficiency. That capitalism more relates to a competitive marketplace of products that pits Porsches vs. the best from BMW, Mac, Merc, etc. What innovation comes from holding stock?
The following users liked this post:
AlexCeres (02-02-2023)
#4737
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Not in real life, or on Rennlist.
The following 3 users liked this post by ipse dixit:
#4738
Not trying to call anyone dumb either, but I'm a little flummoxed how it isn't clear what I was trying to say in my last post. Because the % adjustment on houses was smaller than the % some "over"paid on GT3s AND because the reason for the peaks are different (one is due to structural housing supply issues that will continue to be a problem until millions of units are produced and the other is due to dealers hoarding and gouging on cars until the next one comes) wealthy people purchasing houses is NOT like wealthy people purchasing GT3s. It's a bad analogy.
It's like comparing a more free market, like perhaps the lithium market something where there's lots of competition, like dishwashers, and a diamond market, for which a relatively small group of sellers price fix. Just because prices go up and down doesn't mean the markets are comparable and doesn't mean that they are both necessarily "free markets." It's more complicated than that.
It's like comparing a more free market, like perhaps the lithium market something where there's lots of competition, like dishwashers, and a diamond market, for which a relatively small group of sellers price fix. Just because prices go up and down doesn't mean the markets are comparable and doesn't mean that they are both necessarily "free markets." It's more complicated than that.
dealers is relevant. You don’t have significant negotiating power because there are still 3 guys ready to take your place, if not more. Dealers aren’t hoarding cars. They’re selling them all. Porsche simply isn’t manufacturing enough for the current demand at these price levels.
#4739
#4740
Car price is set mostly by free market but dealers do have an upper hand. Unlike real estate sales, the actual sale value of car sold from dealer to seller is not public and dealers do have an upper hand in being able to BS to customers on previous sales price or how scarce the car is (you know the usual dealer BS such as last of NA or porsche isnt making it anymore and etc)
For example, the 911 SC could have been sold at much lower price to local repeat customer who buys 30+ cars from the dealership but all we know is it asked 250k+ adm and it sold, so it sets the market price of other SC as 450k even though we never know it sold for that.
For example, the 911 SC could have been sold at much lower price to local repeat customer who buys 30+ cars from the dealership but all we know is it asked 250k+ adm and it sold, so it sets the market price of other SC as 450k even though we never know it sold for that.