zairegp

It is such an interesting situation. In full disclosure, have been hoping for prices to come down so that I can buy one. On the one hand, prices for cars sold on BaT have been very resiliant at around $80-90k for a Touring. On the other hand, 4 months ago, the asking prices for a GT3 (on Autotrader/Cars.com/Etc) were in the high $200s/low $300s and now there are examples in the $250-260k range. These are still well above sticker though. That being said, none of them are in a spec that I want - Touring, manual, Black/Agate, no yellow seat belts, and a somewhat modest color interior (not red)... so that doesn't help...

Eye opening to me was when I went looking at 991.2 Tourings and found that those prices were also $70k or so above MSRP.... Prices for many other makes and models still have ADMs. But dealer lots used to be empty, and now they aren't. Carmax blew up. A new M3 had a markup a few months ago and now they can be had at MSRP. Basically data points for whatever side you want to take.

992.2 GT3 will come out with an ADM and will also likely be $10-20k more expensive that the 992.1 on MSRP. How much cheaper "should" the 992.1 be at that point? Assume a $200k build on a 992.1 translates to $220k for the 992.2. ADM lower, but still elevated - $75k. That car is now a $295k car. How much should the equivalent spec 992.1 be? How much less would you spend forthe last gen? $75k like the 992.1 vs 991.2 delta is today? If you agree, the price on the 992.1 you bought at $300k ($100k ADM) is now 225k, a decline of 25%, and around MSRP in 2 years. So that sucks, BUT you can probably trade it in for a 992.2 allocation at or close to MSRP... So a silver lining of sorts.

Lastly, if we really do hit a recession and the market tanks - while ADMs may go away, your savings just tanked 20% too...

Anyway, just thinking out loud and probably not adding much to the conversation Thanks for all the chat so far - has been a fun read...

usctrojanGT3

Totally understand what you are saying and I paid a $50k ADM to get a 991.1 GT3RS allocation because I established my relationship with my dealer. I get that people who don't have dealer relationships are going to have to pay an ADM to get a GT and there is a difference in paying a reasonable ADM ($20k-40k) and a stupid ADM ($75k-$100k+). When I traded my GT3RS in 2021 and GT4 this year back to my dealer I got MSRP and they sold the cars for $28k over MSRP and $24k over MSRP, respectively, so you say that I paid an indirect ADM of $28k for my Touring and an indirect ADM of $24k for my GT4RS. There have been dealers who used to sell for MSRP but had their customers flip their cars to the highest bidder so they decided to stop selling their GT cars for ADMs because the numbers got so big.

Targa32

Just flipped my 22’ GT4 to my dealer at a few thousand over my cost / he now has it listed for sale at $25,000 over my sale price. But I got a msrp allocation for a T eventually which works for me and him. Saves me selling the car, I deduct the trade in value of the GT car from the cost of the 911 T saving me a ton of sales tax and I get a car I think will be more to my liking.

ipse dixit

But but but and RS is an RS.

Targa32

What are odds that these auctions have shill bidders?
I would say very high. Why would any informed buyer not just work the near 100 GT3’s on cars.com for a good price? And if you buy as a certified used car from a Porsche dealer you will get an extension of the factory warranty.

also likely a lot of the used cars on Cars.com are near you so you could actually look at the car before spending $250.000.

A reasonable price is $25,000 over msrp as I know I could recently have had an allocation on a GT3 at under $50,000. Paying $25,000 over for a car you drive home immediately though used - and could have been abused - is such a small number that it is irrelevant unlike $100,000 which is too risky for me anyway.

WCGhost

How are you able to get a tax credit on the trade in, i see you are in San Diego. CA does not allow for this I thought?

Diablo Dude

You are correct.
CA does not allow for this.

Diablo Dude

The 2022 GT3 Touring in Agate Grey Metallic with PDK and 1300 miles was aggressively bid for by 5 bidders in the last 10 minutes of the auction.
I watched it real-time and the car sold for $92,000 over MSRP.

2022 Porsche 911 GT3 Touring for sale on BaT Auctions - sold for $286,000 on December 2, 2022 (Lot #92,313) | Bring a Trailer

The seller commented that "someone is going home with this today" . . . implying that the reserve was met. That was around the $250,000 mark.
From that point on, there were 5 bidders still bidding for this GT3. Are you trying to claim that "shill" bidders took this car up an additional $36,000 ?
I'm sorry, but that makes no sense at all.

WCGhost

This is the lowest price i've seen on a car that is on the ground, looks like it was recently sold.

Scottykenneth

This would have been in my garage if it had buckets. Used 2022 Porsche 911 GT3 for $249991 on Autotrader http://atcm.co/S2PVDP/27ABEFF9 ( Search continues… )

Manifold

We had out of town guests this weekend. They're both car people and have done a few track days, but never owned Porsches. Took him out to test drive my 991.1 GT3, 991.2 C4S PDK cab, 997.1 C2S manual, and 981 GT4 (manual), in that order. He pushed the cars pretty well when possible. He agreed with my assessments, ranking the 997 as the most fun as a road car. I think people who are paying big dollars for a 992 GT3 manual touring as a road car are really missing the mark, you could be getting a funner 911 for a fraction of the cost. I may buy another 997.

Since Porsche allocations for sports cars are so hard to get these days and ADMs are crazy, the M4 competition has caught my eye as a possible track car - it's about as fast as the 991.1 GT3 and 718 GT4, and less than $100k brand new.

993RR

[QUOTE=Manifold;18498239

Since Porsche allocations for sports cars are so hard to get these days and ADMs are crazy, the M4 competition has caught my eye as a possible track car - it's about as fast as the 991.1 GT3 and 718 GT4, and less than $100k brand new.[/QUOTE]

BMWs are competent but desirable? And they are lardy.

Manifold

I dunno. Lap time is good, but yes, heavier and maybe not as fun and crisp. I'll need to research it.

rodsky

Good post - I think the economy is not "bad" enough to affect GT3's and above cars. The wealthy and rich are weathering the storm better than they have over the last 20-25 years. Try buying anything nice and they are over sticker. Mclaren 765LT, F8's, 296's, Lambo EVO's, Lambo Technica, STO, Lambo URus, Taycans, etc. Its not 2008/2009 yet and i dont think it will be that bad for the wealthy. Every GT3 has followed a similar pattern. 75-100K over to start (except for those that have relationships etc), up until the end of the run where they settle at 20K over or so and then closer to MSRP or maybe less a couple years after the run. The pandemic with supply chain issues and nothing else to spend money on (while we sat in our homes and bought cars to get out and drive) changed that dynamic for 2 years. But my guess is that things will normalize moving fwd (eventually). The crypto crowd and speculators are probably gone for a while so that dynamic is also taken out for now - they may return but not for a while. Plus financing cars is getting expensive. I'm not hoping for a market crash or it going down - but i am likely in next year for an MT to supplement the TT - at somewhere in the $20-30K over for something that I like. I have some dry powder set aside for a birthday gift - so I don't really care about the market in that regards .. If the GT3 is not an option - then I'll look at other marques. The "value" in these cars is the fun / joy they bring you. Not what you can sell it for.

ipse dixit

Spoken like someone who has yet to track the current G82 M4.