A place to discuss all things ADM
12-01-2022, 05:22 PM
#3316
Rennlist Member
At least in my experience majority have some form of floor plan, if not they have access to some other form of similar credit. Rates given the risk profile is generally the same tend to follow similar trajectories. Lots of flavors of plans but the fundamentals are similar. The business relies on volume and velocity of deals to fund the leverage. In the last 20 years the number of specialty floor plans, eg beyond factory offered floor planning, has grown significantly. There is a lot of leverage out there of one form or another.
Last edited by armanslr; 12-01-2022 at 05:27 PM.
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12-01-2022, 05:36 PM
#3317
Rennlist Member
I wouldn't know how larger franchise groups work, but in the independent dealership world most of the dealers who use lots of flooring are the more aggressive stores or newer dealerships, most established dealers have plenty of capital to purchase inventory and save on flooring cost.
Yes, most dealers have lines of credit / floor plans available, we have one that we do not use, doesn't cost us anything and is with one of the larger flooring companies. Just checked the terms and right now a $100k car would cost me about $900 / month in flooring cost if I were to use a floor plan to purchase it. 6 Months ago that would have cost me $400 a month to floor, but I am sure bigger dealerships would have better terms.
Yes, most dealers have lines of credit / floor plans available, we have one that we do not use, doesn't cost us anything and is with one of the larger flooring companies. Just checked the terms and right now a $100k car would cost me about $900 / month in flooring cost if I were to use a floor plan to purchase it. 6 Months ago that would have cost me $400 a month to floor, but I am sure bigger dealerships would have better terms.
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armanslr (12-01-2022)
12-01-2022, 06:04 PM
#3318
I didn’t even read all that .
Adm’s not stopping meant the future new cars were still selling with adm’s .
As I said ; this is not the stock market or housing .
A lot of you guys are doing simpleton analysis that many of us old guys who are reading these types of postings just wind up shaking our heads .
Adm’s not stopping meant the future new cars were still selling with adm’s .
As I said ; this is not the stock market or housing .
A lot of you guys are doing simpleton analysis that many of us old guys who are reading these types of postings just wind up shaking our heads .
They would be fighting it all the way up (for years) and "rationalizing" why they aren't getting long and making money.
They see themselves as "value" players, yet can't wrap their heads around supply and demand.
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shrimp money (12-01-2022)
12-01-2022, 06:54 PM
#3319
Burning Brakes
Even if it was the stock market, these are the kind of guys that would be BEARISH at the beginning of a new Bull Market.
They would be fighting it all the way up (for years) and "rationalizing" why they aren't getting long and making money.
They see themselves as "value" players, yet can't wrap their heads around supply and demand.
They would be fighting it all the way up (for years) and "rationalizing" why they aren't getting long and making money.
They see themselves as "value" players, yet can't wrap their heads around supply and demand.
I shovel money in the stock market pretty much every month and never look at it again or care about its performance. It's a long term thing obviously.
Sports car buying is a shorter term consumable buddy. It is not an investment.
Let me repeat to you, Porsches are not investments pal. Porsche's are not investments. Porsche's are not investments. Porsche's are not investments. Porsche's are not investments. Porsche's are not investments. Porsche's are not investments.
I heard sometimes you have to say something 7x before they remember. You're welcome
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usctrojanGT3 (12-01-2022)
12-01-2022, 07:50 PM
#3320
I didn’t even read all that .
Adm’s not stopping meant the future new cars were still selling with adm’s .
there’s some people buying 992 gt3rs at msrp . No buying history with the dealer, nothing . They are taking a significant haircut on the trade, buying all the add on’s. Doing a one pay lease . It’s coming out to $500k . They can say that they are getting it at msrp though .
as I said ; this is not the stock market or housing . A lot of you guys are doing simpleton analysis that many of us old guys who are reading these types of postings just wind up shaking our heads .
Adm’s not stopping meant the future new cars were still selling with adm’s .
there’s some people buying 992 gt3rs at msrp . No buying history with the dealer, nothing . They are taking a significant haircut on the trade, buying all the add on’s. Doing a one pay lease . It’s coming out to $500k . They can say that they are getting it at msrp though .
as I said ; this is not the stock market or housing . A lot of you guys are doing simpleton analysis that many of us old guys who are reading these types of postings just wind up shaking our heads .
1) Fed increase rates = higher car loan/lease rates
2) Fed draining liquidity of out the system
3) Economy slowing down
4) Crypto market a complete mess
5) Free gov't cheese has ran out
6) Supply of used 992 GT3s keeps increasing and Porsche is still building them
7) Real estate prices declining
8) Other luxury item prices are declining (watches, purses, etc)
9) Job market beginning to soften with hiring freezes and layoffs
10) Credit card usage way up and saving are down significantly
I can go on with more headwinds but you get the idea. I'm not saying prices are going to MSRP anytime soon, I'm saying that prices are declining and will eventually get to MSRP. I own a Touring but I could care less what the car is worth because I'm actually driving it. Also, history has a way of repeating itself....we've gone through high ADMS with the 991 GT cars and now the 992 GT and we always end up back at MSRP and below given enough time. And yes, we have the same ADM stuff with the 992.2 GT cars as the spin will be that they'll be the last NA cars. Don't worry, when we are back at MSRP with the 992 GT3 and GT3RS I won't say that I told you so.
12-01-2022, 07:53 PM
#3321
The fact you're comparing the stock market to car buying shows how bad you got the blinders on.
I shovel money in the stock market pretty much every month and never look at it again or care about its performance. It's a long term thing obviously.
Sports car buying is a shorter term consumable buddy. It is not an investment.
Let me repeat to you, Porsches are not investments pal. Porsche's are not investments. Porsche's are not investments. Porsche's are not investments. Porsche's are not investments. Porsche's are not investments. Porsche's are not investments.
I heard sometimes you have to say something 7x before they remember. You're welcome
I shovel money in the stock market pretty much every month and never look at it again or care about its performance. It's a long term thing obviously.
Sports car buying is a shorter term consumable buddy. It is not an investment.
Let me repeat to you, Porsches are not investments pal. Porsche's are not investments. Porsche's are not investments. Porsche's are not investments. Porsche's are not investments. Porsche's are not investments. Porsche's are not investments.
I heard sometimes you have to say something 7x before they remember. You're welcome
Last edited by usctrojanGT3; 12-01-2022 at 07:54 PM.
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12-01-2022, 08:29 PM
#3323
hope some of you get all over his *** like you did mine when I said I don't care if my GT4 loses value because I own it and am driving/enjoying it. I remember a generous amount of backlash when I posted that about a week ago.
12-01-2022, 08:30 PM
#3324
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Let me make it simple for you since I'm a simpleton...
1) Fed increase rates = higher car loan/lease rates
2) Fed draining liquidity of out the system
3) Economy slowing down
4) Crypto market a complete mess
5) Free gov't cheese has ran out
6) Supply of used 992 GT3s keeps increasing and Porsche is still building them
7) Real estate prices declining
8) Other luxury item prices are declining (watches, purses, etc)
9) Job market beginning to soften with hiring freezes and layoffs
10) Credit card usage way up and saving are down significantly
I can go on with more headwinds but you get the idea. I'm not saying prices are going to MSRP anytime soon, I'm saying that prices are declining and will eventually get to MSRP. I own a Touring but I could care less what the car is worth because I'm actually driving it. Also, history has a way of repeating itself....we've gone through high ADMS with the 991 GT cars and now the 992 GT and we always end up back at MSRP and below given enough time. And yes, we have the same ADM stuff with the 992.2 GT cars as the spin will be that they'll be the last NA cars. Don't worry, when we are back at MSRP with the 992 GT3 and GT3RS I won't say that I told you so.
1) Fed increase rates = higher car loan/lease rates
2) Fed draining liquidity of out the system
3) Economy slowing down
4) Crypto market a complete mess
5) Free gov't cheese has ran out
6) Supply of used 992 GT3s keeps increasing and Porsche is still building them
7) Real estate prices declining
8) Other luxury item prices are declining (watches, purses, etc)
9) Job market beginning to soften with hiring freezes and layoffs
10) Credit card usage way up and saving are down significantly
I can go on with more headwinds but you get the idea. I'm not saying prices are going to MSRP anytime soon, I'm saying that prices are declining and will eventually get to MSRP. I own a Touring but I could care less what the car is worth because I'm actually driving it. Also, history has a way of repeating itself....we've gone through high ADMS with the 991 GT cars and now the 992 GT and we always end up back at MSRP and below given enough time. And yes, we have the same ADM stuff with the 992.2 GT cars as the spin will be that they'll be the last NA cars. Don't worry, when we are back at MSRP with the 992 GT3 and GT3RS I won't say that I told you so.
991.2 GT3 cars are close to their MSRP prices, and often below those prices when adjusted for inflation.
I have no reason to expect that 992 GT3 cars won't have the same fate. Prices for all but the true collector's cars are trending down. The bubbles that drove price increases are deflating or bursting, and supply chain issues are getting resolved.
The new cars aren't necessarily more fun than the older cars, and are competing with them. Nice 991 cars can be had for under $150K, in some cases under $100K. The rationale to spend well over $200K for 992 cars is weak.
Last edited by Manifold; 12-01-2022 at 08:39 PM.
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Maverick787 (12-01-2022)
12-01-2022, 08:34 PM
#3326
to provide some factual relevance, floor plans work with a haircut account requiring the delaership to pay down the floorplan debt over a 45 to 120 day period (typically). So, most are haircut off the warhouse line in 120 days. Meaning, they then own it and have no leverage against it after that 120 day expires.
Now, go back to your BS about car values and prices.
Now, go back to your BS about car values and prices.
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12-01-2022, 08:41 PM
#3327
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It's an interesting topic with dimensions that extend beyond cars. Why would you expect the discussion to end? And why are you checking in on the discussion if it doesn't interest you? I don't even look at 99%+ of the threads in RL.
Last edited by Manifold; 12-01-2022 at 09:50 PM.
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12-01-2022, 10:20 PM
#3328
12-01-2022, 10:23 PM
#3330
Race Car
We need more PPP in ‘23!!!!!