Alan Smithee

^ Same can be said comparing any 987/997 with its equivalent 981/991 model, no? My point was the positioning of new niche models at higher price points.

richk

The 991's are all big! I kinda like having more room but to me a 993 was the perfect size. Really regret selling my 993 turbo. My 991TTS is so great I can't really complain.

CSLSuperfan

Many thanks for the insightful narrative on the 911R.


We, in the UK, do not see many of these wonderful cars.

WernerE

But, but, but...it's a parts bin special! /s

I want one.

turbofreeFLAT6

I found the front grip of the GT4 (with rear ARB stiff) amazing and you said previously that the the R has much more, so the agility and cleanness of turn-in must feel incredible. However it's essentially mid-engined handling. Do you think that after a year or two it will still be as rewarding as traditional 911 front lightness, feeling for the limit of front grip, tightening the line with more or less throttle, judging the point where you can wind off lock and apply full power, and feeling the car steer from the outside rear?

It seems to me a risky move by Porsche to remove part of the 911's unique feel, at least in its enthusiasts' models, no matter how effective the progress. Now that Porsche has increased high speed stability by moving the motor slightly forward and adding RWS I think it should go further with '60s R channelling and produce a short wheelbase version with corresponding weight saving and some traditional 911 handling and intimacy. '911 R SWB' rolls off the tongue nicely and steals a march on Ferrari.

~50k to have the stripes painted! Porsche must send the car over to Bugatti.

How's the break-in going, Suitcase?

BusDriver

Due to its more sophisticated suspension, the 911R's handling is benign compared to old 911s. But one still needs to take weight transfer into account when cornering as the 911R's weight distribution is still lumpy old school at 38/62 static front/rear – very similar to older 911s. This makes the R feel like a proper 911 but not as quirky as the old ones - you do not need to manage every step of the turn delicately like the old 911s. Still, there is black magic here in that Porsche has simultaneously improved agility and high speed stability with RWS and sophisticated suspension while retaining the traditional 911 lumpy weight transfer management and 38/62 weight distribution.

I find the 911 R a lot more engaging than the GT4 and have almost stopped driving the GT4 on the street since the R was delivered. But while I do not know how I will feel about the 911 R in a year or two, it will remain a unique car for a long time - very few manual sports car alternatives, the unique sound (exhaust, intake, and car is stripped of insulation), unique interior (houndstooth carbon bucket seats), and exterior (paint, stripes, and wingless), single mass flywheel, etc. I do not see another car, not even the upcoming 991.2 GT3, matching the raw stripped lightweight hot rod ethos of this car.

P.S.: All this got me thinking about the 911R in comparison to modern Ferraris. Another way to describe the 911 R is that it is an improved 430 Scuderia with a monster engine, a manual gearbox, and RWS. The 458 Speciale can’t compare as it is nowhere near as raw as the Scuderia, and the 488 is an AMG Mercedes in comparison.

Nizer

Looks like Powerslider got CJ's gold wheels.

Jimmy-D

991.2 GT3 will be more raw stripped out - you will see

turbofreeFLAT6

Thanks BusDriver, it sounds like my fears were unfounded.

mooty

thank you for the summary
i am driving the R vicariously through you.

while i have no R, comparing my good GT4 vs my various GT3/rs, it is not as engaging, even compared to those with paddles.

Nizer

having driven both extensively and no offence meant to GT4 owners but cayman will never be a 911.

neanicu

None taken. Porsche will make sure of that.
No offense either,but 911 owners had over 50 years of Kool-Aid drinking,while the Cayman owners only 12. It's a big difference on the level of " intoxication ".
If Porsche developed a fully adjustable multi-link suspension in the back of the GT4 just like they did in the front,use the top of the line Motorsport engine available at the moment with 500 HP and the 911 is no more.

GrantG

GT4 uses strut suspension in front and rear. 991 also uses strut front (except RSR which uses double wishbone).

BusDriver

Thank you mooty! Your posts on the GT4 and the collective body of knowledge in the GT4 forum have been very helpful for my GT4's track setup.

Yes, the better balanced GT4 would be faster than a GT3 RS on the track if Porsche developed the GT4 as thoroughly as the 911 and equipped it with similar mechanical components such as the 500 hp engine and appropriate suspension. That is a big "if" and I do not see that happening as it would cause a major product positioning problem between the Cayman and the 911.

turbofreeFLAT6

I didn't notice any deficiency in the rear suspension of my GT4. It just needed a 450 hp Motorsport engine, reduced sound deadening to hear the engine and reduce weight, shorter gearing and hydraulic steering. Then it would be a truly great car, just missing the anachronistic but more involving 911 weight balance. With 50 hp less and no RWS it would still leave some marketing space to the 911.