911R Driving Impressions
#301
Rennlist Member
^ Same can be said comparing any 987/997 with its equivalent 981/991 model, no? My point was the positioning of new niche models at higher price points.
#304
I want one.
#305
My views are similar to Footsoldier's above...
On the road, I am happy to have great front end grip as I am not interested in sliding the front. And when appropriate, it is easy to light up the rear tires on power as the grip at the rear is easily overcome by the engine. The 911 R feels overpowered for its tires so road handling is fantastic and very engaging on the road. It is not just grip and power that makes the car engaging - the RWS makes the car more fun with excellent turn-in when charging up the hairpins on a mountain road. The better turn-in with RWS makes for higher corner entry speeds, and therefore even easier to light up the rears on corner exit.
The electric power steering is very precise, but does not have the same road feedback as the previous hydraulic systems. If I could choose, I would rather have hydraulic power steering.
Agreed that the stripes are a matter of taste. I optioned my stripes to match the paint as a compromise to retain the uniqueness of the stripes while remaining more subtle than contrasting stripes. BTW, painted stripes cost around 50k, so only about 5 or 10 cars have that.
On the road, I am happy to have great front end grip as I am not interested in sliding the front. And when appropriate, it is easy to light up the rear tires on power as the grip at the rear is easily overcome by the engine. The 911 R feels overpowered for its tires so road handling is fantastic and very engaging on the road. It is not just grip and power that makes the car engaging - the RWS makes the car more fun with excellent turn-in when charging up the hairpins on a mountain road. The better turn-in with RWS makes for higher corner entry speeds, and therefore even easier to light up the rears on corner exit.
The electric power steering is very precise, but does not have the same road feedback as the previous hydraulic systems. If I could choose, I would rather have hydraulic power steering.
Agreed that the stripes are a matter of taste. I optioned my stripes to match the paint as a compromise to retain the uniqueness of the stripes while remaining more subtle than contrasting stripes. BTW, painted stripes cost around 50k, so only about 5 or 10 cars have that.
It seems to me a risky move by Porsche to remove part of the 911's unique feel, at least in its enthusiasts' models, no matter how effective the progress. Now that Porsche has increased high speed stability by moving the motor slightly forward and adding RWS I think it should go further with '60s R channelling and produce a short wheelbase version with corresponding weight saving and some traditional 911 handling and intimacy. '911 R SWB' rolls off the tongue nicely and steals a march on Ferrari.
~50k to have the stripes painted! Porsche must send the car over to Bugatti.
How's the break-in going, Suitcase?
Last edited by turbofreeFLAT6; 01-18-2017 at 08:40 PM.
#306
Instructor
Thread Starter
Due to its more sophisticated suspension, the 911R's handling is benign compared to old 911s. But one still needs to take weight transfer into account when cornering as the 911R's weight distribution is still lumpy old school at 38/62 static front/rear – very similar to older 911s. This makes the R feel like a proper 911 but not as quirky as the old ones - you do not need to manage every step of the turn delicately like the old 911s. Still, there is black magic here in that Porsche has simultaneously improved agility and high speed stability with RWS and sophisticated suspension while retaining the traditional 911 lumpy weight transfer management and 38/62 weight distribution.
I find the 911 R a lot more engaging than the GT4 and have almost stopped driving the GT4 on the street since the R was delivered. But while I do not know how I will feel about the 911 R in a year or two, it will remain a unique car for a long time - very few manual sports car alternatives, the unique sound (exhaust, intake, and car is stripped of insulation), unique interior (houndstooth carbon bucket seats), and exterior (paint, stripes, and wingless), single mass flywheel, etc. I do not see another car, not even the upcoming 991.2 GT3, matching the raw stripped lightweight hot rod ethos of this car.
P.S.: All this got me thinking about the 911R in comparison to modern Ferraris. Another way to describe the 911 R is that it is an improved 430 Scuderia with a monster engine, a manual gearbox, and RWS. The 458 Speciale can’t compare as it is nowhere near as raw as the Scuderia, and the 488 is an AMG Mercedes in comparison.
I find the 911 R a lot more engaging than the GT4 and have almost stopped driving the GT4 on the street since the R was delivered. But while I do not know how I will feel about the 911 R in a year or two, it will remain a unique car for a long time - very few manual sports car alternatives, the unique sound (exhaust, intake, and car is stripped of insulation), unique interior (houndstooth carbon bucket seats), and exterior (paint, stripes, and wingless), single mass flywheel, etc. I do not see another car, not even the upcoming 991.2 GT3, matching the raw stripped lightweight hot rod ethos of this car.
P.S.: All this got me thinking about the 911R in comparison to modern Ferraris. Another way to describe the 911 R is that it is an improved 430 Scuderia with a monster engine, a manual gearbox, and RWS. The 458 Speciale can’t compare as it is nowhere near as raw as the Scuderia, and the 488 is an AMG Mercedes in comparison.
Last edited by BusDriver; 01-19-2017 at 08:18 PM.
#310
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Due to its more sophisticated suspension, the 911R's handling is benign compared to old 911s. But one still needs to take weight transfer into account when cornering as the 911R's weight distribution is still lumpy old school at 38/62 static front/rear – very similar to older 911s. This makes the R feel like a proper 911 but not as quirky as the old ones - you do not need to manage every step of the turn delicately like the old 911s. Still, there is black magic here in that Porsche has simultaneously improved agility and high speed stability with RWS and sophisticated suspension while retaining the traditional 911 lumpy weight transfer management and 38/62 weight distribution.
I find the 911 R a lot more engaging than the GT4 and have almost stopped driving the GT4 on the street since the R was delivered. But while I do not know how I will feel about the 911 R in a year or two, it will remain a unique car for a long time - very few manual sports car alternatives, the unique sound (exhaust, intake, and car is stripped of insulation), unique interior (houndstooth carbon bucket seats), and exterior (paint, stripes, and wingless), single mass flywheel, etc. I do not see another car, not even the upcoming 991.2 GT3, matching the raw stripped lightweight hot rod ethos of this car.
P.S.: All this got me thinking about the 911R in comparison to modern Ferraris. Another way to describe the 911 R is that it is an improved 430 Scuderia with a monster engine, a manual gearbox, and RWS. The 458 Speciale can’t compare as it is nowhere near as raw as the Scuderia, and the 488 is an AMG Mercedes in comparison.
I find the 911 R a lot more engaging than the GT4 and have almost stopped driving the GT4 on the street since the R was delivered. But while I do not know how I will feel about the 911 R in a year or two, it will remain a unique car for a long time - very few manual sports car alternatives, the unique sound (exhaust, intake, and car is stripped of insulation), unique interior (houndstooth carbon bucket seats), and exterior (paint, stripes, and wingless), single mass flywheel, etc. I do not see another car, not even the upcoming 991.2 GT3, matching the raw stripped lightweight hot rod ethos of this car.
P.S.: All this got me thinking about the 911R in comparison to modern Ferraris. Another way to describe the 911 R is that it is an improved 430 Scuderia with a monster engine, a manual gearbox, and RWS. The 458 Speciale can’t compare as it is nowhere near as raw as the Scuderia, and the 488 is an AMG Mercedes in comparison.
i am driving the R vicariously through you.
while i have no R, comparing my good GT4 vs my various GT3/rs, it is not as engaging, even compared to those with paddles.
#312
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by Nizer
having driven both extensively and no offence meant to GT4 owners but cayman will never be a 911.
No offense either,but 911 owners had over 50 years of Kool-Aid drinking,while the Cayman owners only 12. It's a big difference on the level of " intoxication ".
If Porsche developed a fully adjustable multi-link suspension in the back of the GT4 just like they did in the front,use the top of the line Motorsport engine available at the moment with 500 HP and the 911 is no more.
#313
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
#314
Instructor
Thread Starter
None taken. Porsche will make sure of that.
No offense either,but 911 owners had over 50 years of Kool-Aid drinking,while the Cayman owners only 12. It's a big difference on the level of " intoxication ".
If Porsche developed a fully adjustable multi-link suspension in the back of the GT4 just like they did in the front,use the top of the line Motorsport engine available at the moment with 500 HP and the 911 is no more.
No offense either,but 911 owners had over 50 years of Kool-Aid drinking,while the Cayman owners only 12. It's a big difference on the level of " intoxication ".
If Porsche developed a fully adjustable multi-link suspension in the back of the GT4 just like they did in the front,use the top of the line Motorsport engine available at the moment with 500 HP and the 911 is no more.
#315
I didn't notice any deficiency in the rear suspension of my GT4. It just needed a 450 hp Motorsport engine, reduced sound deadening to hear the engine and reduce weight, shorter gearing and hydraulic steering. Then it would be a truly great car, just missing the anachronistic but more involving 911 weight balance. With 50 hp less and no RWS it would still leave some marketing space to the 911.