GTS
10-09-2014, 08:27 AM
#211
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
Posts: 13,065
Received 4,377 Likes
on
2,490 Posts
Speaking of the engine, aside from it not being used in a race car (yet), is there anything wrong with the engine? Seems to me that everyone raves about the engine, considering it one of the main assets of the car. 9000 rpm isn't too shabby either.
Might be interesting to remind everyone that, if you go back to some older threads, I was among those who questioned whether this car deserves to be called a GT3 - IIRC, I even called it a 'Carrera RS'. But the hope is that, as time goes on, one continues to gather info, revisits assumptions, gets past prejudices, lets empirical evidence override preconceptions, and learns. In my case, I've come to accept calling this car a GT3. A different kind of GT3 to be sure, but still a GT3. Others may not want to accept calling it a GT3, which is fine, but they should know that the majority who're familiar with the car and its history simply won't agree with the definitional criteria they're using. That's an area where we can agree to disagree.
Good discussion. I learned some things.
Might be interesting to remind everyone that, if you go back to some older threads, I was among those who questioned whether this car deserves to be called a GT3 - IIRC, I even called it a 'Carrera RS'. But the hope is that, as time goes on, one continues to gather info, revisits assumptions, gets past prejudices, lets empirical evidence override preconceptions, and learns. In my case, I've come to accept calling this car a GT3. A different kind of GT3 to be sure, but still a GT3. Others may not want to accept calling it a GT3, which is fine, but they should know that the majority who're familiar with the car and its history simply won't agree with the definitional criteria they're using. That's an area where we can agree to disagree.
Good discussion. I learned some things.
10-09-2014, 08:49 AM
#212
Three Wheelin'
Speaking of the engine, aside from it not being used in a race car (yet), is there anything wrong with the engine? Seems to me that everyone raves about the engine, considering it one of the main assets of the car. 9000 rpm isn't too shabby either.
Might be interesting to remind everyone that, if you go back to some older threads, I was among those who questioned whether this car deserves to be called a GT3 - IIRC, I even called it a 'Carrera RS'. But the hope is that, as time goes on, one continues to gather info, revisits assumptions, gets past prejudices, lets empirical evidence override preconceptions, and learns. In my case, I've come to accept calling this car a GT3. A different kind of GT3 to be sure, but still a GT3. Others may not want to accept calling it a GT3, which is fine, but they should know that the majority who're familiar with the car and its history simply won't agree with the definitional criteria they're using. That's an area where we can agree to disagree.
Good discussion. I learned some things.
Might be interesting to remind everyone that, if you go back to some older threads, I was among those who questioned whether this car deserves to be called a GT3 - IIRC, I even called it a 'Carrera RS'. But the hope is that, as time goes on, one continues to gather info, revisits assumptions, gets past prejudices, lets empirical evidence override preconceptions, and learns. In my case, I've come to accept calling this car a GT3. A different kind of GT3 to be sure, but still a GT3. Others may not want to accept calling it a GT3, which is fine, but they should know that the majority who're familiar with the car and its history simply won't agree with the definitional criteria they're using. That's an area where we can agree to disagree.
Good discussion. I learned some things.
10-09-2014, 08:49 AM
#213
Three Wheelin'
Me as well.....and I must apologize up front when I continue to keep passing you in my GTS-R. Of course I only want you to continue to get a good look at my not cup car rear bumper and not cup car rear wing....and you might also be able to appreciate the not cup car RWS from behind me along with the not cup car brakes. If you don't get a good look its only because the not cup car engine has simply pulled away from the apex to quickly and you will have missed it. Don't worry there will plenty of time to repeat the same views again and again, that is unless you go home early?
10-09-2014, 09:13 AM
#214
Nordschleife Master
Soon enough Porsche would have learned whether this engine is race worthy. That's why they're using owners as Beta testers. It was the other way around in the past. Hey cost control and VW management made them change things.
" 80% of our customers are using their GT3s on the track " said Andreas Preuninger. Porsche has no way of beating that number of Beta testers. Win win situation for them.
There is no way of turning back to Mezger,they are forced to build a new racing engine. Whether it will be this one or a variation of it,all I can think is that it's definitely coming!
I just want to see the enthusiasm they've had in the past. Why don't they take one off the assembly line and put it in a 24Hrs race like they've done in the past?! That would be really cool!
" 80% of our customers are using their GT3s on the track " said Andreas Preuninger. Porsche has no way of beating that number of Beta testers. Win win situation for them.
There is no way of turning back to Mezger,they are forced to build a new racing engine. Whether it will be this one or a variation of it,all I can think is that it's definitely coming!
I just want to see the enthusiasm they've had in the past. Why don't they take one off the assembly line and put it in a 24Hrs race like they've done in the past?! That would be really cool!
Last edited by neanicu; 08-31-2016 at 09:00 AM.
10-09-2014, 09:40 AM
#215
Me as well.....and I must apologize up front when I continue to keep passing you in my GTS-R. Of course I only want you to continue to get a good look at my not cup car rear bumper and not cup car rear wing....and you might also be able to appreciate the not cup car RWS from behind me along with the not cup car brakes. If you don't get a good look its only because the not cup car engine has simply pulled away from the apex to quickly and you will have missed it. Don't worry there will plenty of time to repeat the same views again and again, that is unless you go home early?
10-09-2014, 09:51 AM
#216
10-09-2014, 09:58 AM
#217
Three Wheelin'
I wish everyone would cool down over the mezger vs 9A1 engine debate.....too many just assume that Porsche is not using the new engine for cup car because of reliability and that its not race proven? This just simply isn't true and has not been proven at all (show me some proof that someone from Porsche MS has been quoted as saying" we can't use the 991 engine because of reliability???"). There are so many factors at play here that I can't even begin to touch the list. Yes the 9A1 is less expensive to produce (and hence some are pointing out that its not as race hearty) but that also has nothing to do with why they have not started to use it yet. Not sure if anyone has been watching different racing series....the landscape is changing quickly and there are several organizations that are up in the air (as others have stated also) on engine regs for the upcoming couple of years. Again the highest cost to a manufacturer is development and commitment to a specific engine platform for racing. It is simply easier and at this point less costly to continue with the mezger and pause the change over until there is some confidence that they know definitively a engine regs plan for the next 10 years or at least a direction for development. Of course when you race alot and something has been around for a while and many years of development have already been invested its a comfort zone for most teams including the factory engineers. I know its been said for quite some time but there is still a strong chance that you will see the 9A1 in a cup car if regs somehow get some concrete to them.
10-09-2014, 10:06 AM
#218
Three Wheelin'
10-09-2014, 11:11 AM
#219
Rennlist Member
I've tried to remain unresponsive to some of the banter here, most of it from destaccado who like most, points out reasonable issues every now and then. I do learn from everyone's comments and am grateful.
My post is about the way in which destaccado makes his comments. They are antagonizing and border on trolling. If trolling were a profession, he'd be a master!
Getting response by lighting a firecracker on a subject will get people's hair up and takes away from constructive criticism. Each to their own but D please change the manner of your comments because I for one would learn a whole lot more from your experiences if they were less of a wind up and more respective of this community.
My post is about the way in which destaccado makes his comments. They are antagonizing and border on trolling. If trolling were a profession, he'd be a master!
Getting response by lighting a firecracker on a subject will get people's hair up and takes away from constructive criticism. Each to their own but D please change the manner of your comments because I for one would learn a whole lot more from your experiences if they were less of a wind up and more respective of this community.
10-09-2014, 11:35 AM
#221
See the thing is, if he came with a respectable and sincere approach as Manifold has in the past as most have disagreed with him, people would have responded positively. Many people and Manifold shared a back and forth to argument points with dignity and respect in previous and other threads. Had Desteccado come with the same approach it would have been a healthy back and forth. I appreciate apposing views as it sheds light to a different perspective. I don't however appreciate someone coming on here flailing with meaningless comments and expects not to be bombarded from all angles.
10-09-2014, 11:35 AM
#222
I've tried to remain unresponsive to some of the banter here, most of it from destaccado who like most, points out reasonable issues every now and then. I do learn from everyone's comments and am grateful.
My post is about the way in which destaccado makes his comments. They are antagonizing and border on trolling. If trolling were a profession, he'd be a master!
Getting response by lighting a firecracker on a subject will get people's hair up and takes away from constructive criticism. Each to their own but D please change the manner of your comments because I for one would learn a whole lot more from your experiences if they were less of a wind up and more respective of this community.
My post is about the way in which destaccado makes his comments. They are antagonizing and border on trolling. If trolling were a profession, he'd be a master!
Getting response by lighting a firecracker on a subject will get people's hair up and takes away from constructive criticism. Each to their own but D please change the manner of your comments because I for one would learn a whole lot more from your experiences if they were less of a wind up and more respective of this community.
Here's just a small sample of posts directed towards me;
"Dan (is ready to start calling a twit what it is)"
"The troll is hungry...stop feeding him."
"And again. No its not. But by all means continue, it's giving us a good laugh."
"Ok take the track times out of it. What about your flawed logic?"
"destaccado, nothing wrong with fairly criticizing the car, but you have to make a coherent and compelling case. Instead, seems that you're drifting into self-contradictions." <<< Couldn't point out 1
"Man, some people. Just remarkable. I feel like I'm in a Monty Python skit!"
"So with your vast knowledge, why don't you enlighten us"
"Fellas, it's impossible to change his mind on this. Don't even bother. It's like trying to change the minds of parents that refuse to vaccinate their kids. You can argue till your blue in the face and they won't listen."
..and then your own;
"They are antagonizing and border on trolling. If trolling were a profession, he'd be a master!"
You could learn a bit about respect yourself. So take your "respective community" and return to being unresponsive. Thanks in advance.
10-09-2014, 11:40 AM
#223
Three Wheelin'
People are entitled to their own opinions and preferences. How and where they choose to share these are matters of intent and etiquette. However, they are not entitled to confabulate about technical specifications or other established factual data to validate their opinions or preferences.
10-09-2014, 11:41 AM
#224
See the thing is, if he came with a respectable and sincere approach as Manifold has in the past as most have disagreed with him, people would have responded positively. Many people and Manifold shared a back and forth to argument points with dignity and respect in previous and other threads. Had Desteccado come with the same approach it would have been a healthy back and forth. I appreciate apposing views as it sheds light to a different perspective. I don't however appreciate someone coming on here flailing with meaningless comments and expects not to be bombarded from all angles.
This thread begins with numerous individuals commenting on the 991 GTS - a car I don't plan on owning - simply being a parts bin special vs the far superior GT3 (paraphrasing). I simply made a factual statement in that cars defense due to the pompous attitude of people here; "At the end of the day the 991 GT3 is MUCH closer to the 991 GTS than it is to the previous generations of GT3." ...and it devolved from there.
10-09-2014, 11:47 AM
#225
Nordschleife Master
Christ, this really is like that monty python skit....