New GT3/GT2RS Leads With/Without ADM
01-10-2018, 05:44 PM
#571
Race Director
Originally Posted by Archimedes
Mind boggling to hear this many cars are showing up on dealer lots unsold looking for buyers. Assuming they don't sell for big premiums, what an enormous waste of allocations that people could have speccd themselves. I would have paid a sizable premium for the configurable allocation I got, but I've yet to see a single dealer speccd car that I'd be interested in buying even at a discount.
The amount of prebuilt cars is laughable. At some point, there must have been some communication among the dealers that this would be a good strategy. I think the fishing for high ADM's didn't turn out as intended, builds were locking, and builds were submitted. Also, probably less painful to try and pass ADM's off with some soap opera story than **** off good customers on lists wanting custom builds.
Buyer backed out, wife said no, car not fast enough, girlfriend hates wing, getting Touring instead, blah, blah ...
Now a dealer can do what they want. It's their allocation and their dealership. Prebuild them all if they want. Not really the Porsche avenue with pushing customization, etc. but just don't make up stories and take enthusiasts for fools. Way too much dishonestly coming from dealers these days. What's new though? Part of the DNA it seems.
01-10-2018, 06:03 PM
#572
Race Director
The amount of prebuilt cars is laughable. At some point, there must have been some communication among the dealers that this would be a good strategy. I think the fishing for high ADM's didn't turn out as intended, builds were locking, and builds were submitted. Also, probably less painful to try and pass ADM's off with some soap opera story than **** off good customers on lists wanting custom builds.
01-10-2018, 06:09 PM
#573
The dealers know they have this ace up their sleeve to do with it as they like, since other 911 sales likely are lagging and while the market/economy is doing well...they are greedily going to use this ace card to do whatever it takes to boost profits (incentivize clients who purchase multiple cars or for as large of an ADM they can get to the highest bidder)... if they can't get their asking price for the allocation I bet the GM spec's it to his or her taste to, again, maximize profit ($175k+ builds) and prey on the guy who sees the car on the lot and just has to have it
At least we won't feel guilty for being savage and neglecting these guys if and when the market takes a downturn, and reward the good dealers who treat people with respect & decency
I might buy a base Macan in a year or two (in no rush) and even if it means more work for me, I will bring my business to the dealer who has been accommodating and honest with me as a way of thanking them and hopefully encouraging that type of business over squeezing profits at the sake of the customer
At least we won't feel guilty for being savage and neglecting these guys if and when the market takes a downturn, and reward the good dealers who treat people with respect & decency
I might buy a base Macan in a year or two (in no rush) and even if it means more work for me, I will bring my business to the dealer who has been accommodating and honest with me as a way of thanking them and hopefully encouraging that type of business over squeezing profits at the sake of the customer
01-10-2018, 08:00 PM
#574
SJW, a Carin' kinda guy
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Everyone likes to focus on one facet of the market, but there are multiple forces at play.
Let’s start with dealer profit:
[corrections are welcome as invoice prices are not 100% clear on GT3]]
A dealer makes 10% on the base and 20% on options.
$143,600 x .1 = $14,360
A typical higher spec car: leather/PCCB/buckets/carbon/FAL/LED/chrono/some cosmetic stuff is $30,000 in options.
$30,000 x .2 = $6000
Add PTS and tick some more boxes and you are at $40k+ in options = $8k in profit
That is an incentive for dealers to sell higher spec cars (BTW you can get a GT3 up to $207,530). 50% more profit on a high spec car than a stripper at MSRP. Now, if a dealer can get ADM, say $20k, it has doubled its profit on a typical higher spec build. $40k in profit on one car makes up for a lot of macans at invoice (or let’s the dealer sell a lot of Macans at invoice to gain market share, or even better discount regular 911 to sell more to get more GT3). Go over to the 911 board, and 5-6% is typical, 7% is good, 8% is great. So a 2% difference, say $2500, on a 911 will get you more (very happy) buyers. $20k in ADM is 8 more high discount 911. Which, by the way, is 2-3 more GT3 next production round because GT3 allocations are based on 911 sales. Lather, rinse, repeat and watch your dealer climb the sales ranks toward champion. Oh, and if a GT3 sits on the lot, floorplan financing is really cheap right now so it does not cost much and it drives phone calls and showroom business.
But that does not explain it all. A lot of potential buyers were “flippers.” Those folks have undoubtedly coming to the conclusion that there is little to no money flipping the GT3 because even if you can get $10-15k over, the taxes eats up the profit. Interesting to me is how many PTS orders are flippers as PTS is complete flipper bait (see the 911R and GT3RS market). I just don’t see a premium over the $12,830 price on PTS for the GT3, but regardless, flippers are bailing, dealers are onto them and blackballing them, and that is opening up allocations. But when? In a lot of states deposits are refundable and in others the deposit is $1k so no big cost to walk away so these may be after the lock date. Now add the VIPs, do 918 owners want a GT3? Maybe, but a lot probably don’t, is the dealer going to let that spot go? Hell no, they will take the car and hold it for the VIP if need be and then sell it and probably spec it for them.
Add those things together and look at actual buyer preferences in the aggregate from Camsporsche’s tracker where most options are 70, 80 or more percent selected and that is why you see the on the way or on the lot market is high spec cars.
Anyway, too many words, and may everyone get the car they want at a price they are happy. That’s all that matters in the end.
Let’s start with dealer profit:
[corrections are welcome as invoice prices are not 100% clear on GT3]]
A dealer makes 10% on the base and 20% on options.
$143,600 x .1 = $14,360
A typical higher spec car: leather/PCCB/buckets/carbon/FAL/LED/chrono/some cosmetic stuff is $30,000 in options.
$30,000 x .2 = $6000
Add PTS and tick some more boxes and you are at $40k+ in options = $8k in profit
That is an incentive for dealers to sell higher spec cars (BTW you can get a GT3 up to $207,530). 50% more profit on a high spec car than a stripper at MSRP. Now, if a dealer can get ADM, say $20k, it has doubled its profit on a typical higher spec build. $40k in profit on one car makes up for a lot of macans at invoice (or let’s the dealer sell a lot of Macans at invoice to gain market share, or even better discount regular 911 to sell more to get more GT3). Go over to the 911 board, and 5-6% is typical, 7% is good, 8% is great. So a 2% difference, say $2500, on a 911 will get you more (very happy) buyers. $20k in ADM is 8 more high discount 911. Which, by the way, is 2-3 more GT3 next production round because GT3 allocations are based on 911 sales. Lather, rinse, repeat and watch your dealer climb the sales ranks toward champion. Oh, and if a GT3 sits on the lot, floorplan financing is really cheap right now so it does not cost much and it drives phone calls and showroom business.
But that does not explain it all. A lot of potential buyers were “flippers.” Those folks have undoubtedly coming to the conclusion that there is little to no money flipping the GT3 because even if you can get $10-15k over, the taxes eats up the profit. Interesting to me is how many PTS orders are flippers as PTS is complete flipper bait (see the 911R and GT3RS market). I just don’t see a premium over the $12,830 price on PTS for the GT3, but regardless, flippers are bailing, dealers are onto them and blackballing them, and that is opening up allocations. But when? In a lot of states deposits are refundable and in others the deposit is $1k so no big cost to walk away so these may be after the lock date. Now add the VIPs, do 918 owners want a GT3? Maybe, but a lot probably don’t, is the dealer going to let that spot go? Hell no, they will take the car and hold it for the VIP if need be and then sell it and probably spec it for them.
Add those things together and look at actual buyer preferences in the aggregate from Camsporsche’s tracker where most options are 70, 80 or more percent selected and that is why you see the on the way or on the lot market is high spec cars.
Anyway, too many words, and may everyone get the car they want at a price they are happy. That’s all that matters in the end.
01-10-2018, 08:56 PM
#575
Everyone likes to focus on one facet of the market, but there are multiple forces at play.
Let’s start with dealer profit:
[corrections are welcome as invoice prices are not 100% clear on GT3]]
A dealer makes 10% on the base and 20% on options.
$143,600 x .1 = $14,360
A typical higher spec car: leather/PCCB/buckets/carbon/FAL/LED/chrono/some cosmetic stuff is $30,000 in options.
$30,000 x .2 = $6000
Add PTS and tick some more boxes and you are at $40k+ in options = $8k in profit
That is an incentive for dealers to sell higher spec cars (BTW you can get a GT3 up to $207,530). 50% more profit on a high spec car than a stripper at MSRP. Now, if a dealer can get ADM, say $20k, it has doubled its profit on a typical higher spec build. $40k in profit on one car makes up for a lot of macans at invoice (or let’s the dealer sell a lot of Macans at invoice to gain market share, or even better discount regular 911 to sell more to get more GT3). Go over to the 911 board, and 5-6% is typical, 7% is good, 8% is great. So a 2% difference, say $2500, on a 911 will get you more (very happy) buyers. $20k in ADM is 8 more high discount 911. Which, by the way, is 2-3 more GT3 next production round because GT3 allocations are based on 911 sales. Lather, rinse, repeat and watch your dealer climb the sales ranks toward champion. Oh, and if a GT3 sits on the lot, floorplan financing is really cheap right now so it does not cost much and it drives phone calls and showroom business.
But that does not explain it all. A lot of potential buyers were “flippers.” Those folks have undoubtedly coming to the conclusion that there is little to no money flipping the GT3 because even if you can get $10-15k over, the taxes eats up the profit. Interesting to me is how many PTS orders are flippers as PTS is complete flipper bait (see the 911R and GT3RS market). I just don’t see a premium over the $12,830 price on PTS for the GT3, but regardless, flippers are bailing, dealers are onto them and blackballing them, and that is opening up allocations. But when? In a lot of states deposits are refundable and in others the deposit is $1k so no big cost to walk away so these may be after the lock date. Now add the VIPs, do 918 owners want a GT3? Maybe, but a lot probably don’t, is the dealer going to let that spot go? Hell no, they will take the car and hold it for the VIP if need be and then sell it and probably spec it for them.
Add those things together and look at actual buyer preferences in the aggregate from Camsporsche’s tracker where most options are 70, 80 or more percent selected and that is why you see the on the way or on the lot market is high spec cars.
Anyway, too many words, and may everyone get the car they want at a price they are happy. That’s all that matters in the end.
Let’s start with dealer profit:
[corrections are welcome as invoice prices are not 100% clear on GT3]]
A dealer makes 10% on the base and 20% on options.
$143,600 x .1 = $14,360
A typical higher spec car: leather/PCCB/buckets/carbon/FAL/LED/chrono/some cosmetic stuff is $30,000 in options.
$30,000 x .2 = $6000
Add PTS and tick some more boxes and you are at $40k+ in options = $8k in profit
That is an incentive for dealers to sell higher spec cars (BTW you can get a GT3 up to $207,530). 50% more profit on a high spec car than a stripper at MSRP. Now, if a dealer can get ADM, say $20k, it has doubled its profit on a typical higher spec build. $40k in profit on one car makes up for a lot of macans at invoice (or let’s the dealer sell a lot of Macans at invoice to gain market share, or even better discount regular 911 to sell more to get more GT3). Go over to the 911 board, and 5-6% is typical, 7% is good, 8% is great. So a 2% difference, say $2500, on a 911 will get you more (very happy) buyers. $20k in ADM is 8 more high discount 911. Which, by the way, is 2-3 more GT3 next production round because GT3 allocations are based on 911 sales. Lather, rinse, repeat and watch your dealer climb the sales ranks toward champion. Oh, and if a GT3 sits on the lot, floorplan financing is really cheap right now so it does not cost much and it drives phone calls and showroom business.
But that does not explain it all. A lot of potential buyers were “flippers.” Those folks have undoubtedly coming to the conclusion that there is little to no money flipping the GT3 because even if you can get $10-15k over, the taxes eats up the profit. Interesting to me is how many PTS orders are flippers as PTS is complete flipper bait (see the 911R and GT3RS market). I just don’t see a premium over the $12,830 price on PTS for the GT3, but regardless, flippers are bailing, dealers are onto them and blackballing them, and that is opening up allocations. But when? In a lot of states deposits are refundable and in others the deposit is $1k so no big cost to walk away so these may be after the lock date. Now add the VIPs, do 918 owners want a GT3? Maybe, but a lot probably don’t, is the dealer going to let that spot go? Hell no, they will take the car and hold it for the VIP if need be and then sell it and probably spec it for them.
Add those things together and look at actual buyer preferences in the aggregate from Camsporsche’s tracker where most options are 70, 80 or more percent selected and that is why you see the on the way or on the lot market is high spec cars.
Anyway, too many words, and may everyone get the car they want at a price they are happy. That’s all that matters in the end.
01-11-2018, 12:22 AM
#576
3rd Gear
Join Date: Nov 2017
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not that hard to find. WP0AC2A9XJS174264 is the VIN and it's on Porsche Fresno's website, as well as autotrader. Looks like it came from Auto Gallery. I've enjoyed the back and forth on this although I think it's simply supply and demand at this point, and demand seems to be outpacing supply, so given that money is cheap, transactions are closing above MSRP.
I do think that there is a lot of hypocrisy going around though ... private party sales at above MSRP are OK while some dealerships trying to sell new at above MSRP are scum. Other dealerships however, selling new cars as used(with only delivery miles), at above MSRP for whatever reason are somehow "good guys", because they are transaprent. Transparent about what? What exactly is more transparent?
In the same time, there are people here wanting nearly MSRP for their .1GT3 and complaining that values went down the drain when dealerships are offering them anything below sticker on their 3-4 yr old car. This whole thing is absolutely ridiculous, although it has been quite entertaining to read. carry on!
I do think that there is a lot of hypocrisy going around though ... private party sales at above MSRP are OK while some dealerships trying to sell new at above MSRP are scum. Other dealerships however, selling new cars as used(with only delivery miles), at above MSRP for whatever reason are somehow "good guys", because they are transaprent. Transparent about what? What exactly is more transparent?
In the same time, there are people here wanting nearly MSRP for their .1GT3 and complaining that values went down the drain when dealerships are offering them anything below sticker on their 3-4 yr old car. This whole thing is absolutely ridiculous, although it has been quite entertaining to read. carry on!
01-11-2018, 12:29 AM
#577
Burning Brakes
And Honda (Type R for the last 6 months and even now), Ford (Raptor and GT350 and GT350R last year and even now), Chevrolet (Z06 first few months), and so on, so basically it doesn’t matter what brand. There were and are exceptions in some selling for MSRP, but those are far outnumbered by the ones that were not.
01-11-2018, 01:28 AM
#578
Asset.
Bubble.
Bubble.
01-11-2018, 01:56 AM
#579
macs are fast for sure but when someone says that I wonder if they’ve taken a pcar to the max on track.
01-11-2018, 02:00 AM
#580
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
01-11-2018, 03:20 AM
#581
Racer
Join Date: May 2016
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Just to be clear (since this is a thread about available cars) if you’re looking for a black GT3 with delivery miles, the Auto Gallery currently has one listed:
http://www.theautogallery.com/used/P...cdf89bd8a1.htm
Sometimes these cars will magically reappear at another store, so if you're interested I would act fast.
http://www.theautogallery.com/used/P...cdf89bd8a1.htm
Sometimes these cars will magically reappear at another store, so if you're interested I would act fast.
01-11-2018, 03:28 AM
#582
Just to be clear (since this is a thread about available cars) if you’re looking for a black GT3 with delivery miles, the Auto Gallery currently has one listed:
http://www.theautogallery.com/used/P...cdf89bd8a1.htm
Sometimes these cars will magically reappear at another store, so if you're interested I would act fast.
http://www.theautogallery.com/used/P...cdf89bd8a1.htm
Sometimes these cars will magically reappear at another store, so if you're interested I would act fast.
01-11-2018, 03:34 AM
#583
Racer
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Chicago, NYC, Zurich
Posts: 393
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This is a thread about GT3's "with or without ADM." I'm not sure why you're reacting like that.
Personally, I think the price is a little steep, too. In any case, if you could buy it for $25K over MSRP, would that work?
Personally, I think the price is a little steep, too. In any case, if you could buy it for $25K over MSRP, would that work?
01-11-2018, 03:35 AM
#584
Well, the car is in So Cal so don't under estimate the power of idiots with more money than brains. haha