Ag951

That respect I mentioned before, it disappeared...
Unfortunately, we can't "opt-out" of government. If you try, the FBI will arrest you as a terrorist. Or the IRS will bust you for tax evasion.
Since we can't opt out, we might as well vote against the corrupt politicians.

Switzerland is much more generous, because the Swiss don't try to force their beliefs on others or invade neutral nations.
Giving "aid" to prop up despots who control valuable resources (Venezuala, Nigeria, the entire Gulf Region, etc) or strategic locations (Egypt, Turkey, Panama, etc) is not generosity.
The US doesn't give a penny without strings attached. And rarely without getting something valuable out of the deal.

The donations people voluntarily give to the Red Cross, and the work the Red Cross does around the world are generosity.
Having the IRS take money from citizens by force and distribute it to petty dictators is not.

SidViscous

So once again, you don't allow people to have opinions that you don't like. That's the whole key to the game. Allowing people to believe things, even when you disagree with them.

I didn't say that I disobey laws that are passed (and don't bring up the old thread). Just that when people say I have no right to complain I tell them that I feel the opposite is true. I try to obey the laws, and I pay my taxes.

In terms of both amount of money given per capita, and total amount, many countries exceed the US. Most notably Japan.

But then again, they wouldn't have the money to give were it not for the support of the US.

Moe

Yes, in a short 200 yrs. or so, with freedom we are able to run circles around any other country on earth. I'll give it maybe another 50yrs. and it will be over, as we know it.

Moe

Switzerland is more generous? Give me a break!
Pass that joint!

SidViscous

Hmmmm Actually I was wrong, It has been reversed and we are now the largest in total dollars, but not by GNP.

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp

But Switzerland does about 3 times as much by percentage of GNP, but a pittance in total dollars.

iloveporsches

50 years? No, probably not, unless the whole world comes to an end. But history will show that time and time again any nation that heads down this empircal path eventually crumbles.

User 462021

this thread sucked...

Moe

What cracks me up about some folks, is they somehow feel they are more "patriotic" than the next guy because they bash the USA in public, and wrap themselves in "free speech". I wonder if they bash their parents or children in public while claiming to be a wonderful family man.

Jeeze........

Geo

I wish I had the time and energy to write a more elegant response to this, but work has been a bear and I'm so over tired I'm way off my game. So, I'll wing it.

I don't know if you're using sarcasm here or something, but this is ridiculous at face value. The world is not always a nice place and not everyone means well. Just because we don't hurt anyone doesn't mean someone won't want to hurt us (using "we" and "us" in a more generic sense that talking about ours or another's government). This applies to individuals and to groups of individuals. The concept that if we just play nice with everyone we'll have nothing to worry about is naive.

If this is not what you meant, you may want to elaborate or change it outright. It's not reality.

Moe

Righto, Geo!

Geo

And perhaps someday, hundreds or thousands of years in the future, the basics tenets of this country will be used to forge an even greater state, much like we used the best of many of the world's great civilizations' tenets to forge ours. For ours will likely fall someday. Maybe in hundreds of years. Maybe in thousands. But history suggests it will happen.

Geo

Hold on a second. Now you are placing a value judgment on it the donations. Not quite cricket IMHO - especially since those who accept our generosity do so willingly. We don't force anyone to accept our gifts, aids, loans, etc. Clearly they feel that whatever comes along with it does not outweigh the gifts (etc). So let's leave the value judgment out of this. The first thing I learned in economics is that "people act in their own self interest." That's not 100% true 100% of the time, but it's about a true a statement about human nature as you'll ever find.

Again, those who accept our generosity obviously feel they are getting something worth accepting.

Don't get me wrong. I am not so Pollyanna that I don't think our government gives without strings attached (but I also don't think we attached strings all the time).

First of all, bravo for recognizing that we are not only generous as a government, but also as individuals. On the whole, never has any country in the world ever given so much to so many (I dare say, even adjusted for inflation).

Lastly, saying the IRS takes money by force is totally ignorant and you just lost a fair amount of respect in my eyes with that statement. You've done a pretty good job to this point of staying mostly unemotional in making your arguments, but that's pure monkey poo. For one thing, you have a choice. If you don't want to pay US taxes, you have a choice to go somewhere else. You choose to stay here and pay your taxes. Go back to the economics lesson. Despite the government collecting taxes from you... Despite what those taxes may be used for... There is still value to you for living in this country and paying your taxes. Lastly, there are people who don't pay taxes. Most eventually get caught and either pay fines or go to jail. Do you have the courage of your convictions? You invoke the names of the Founding Fathers. They had the courage of their convictions to risk life and livelihood. Sorry. You don't stack up (and I admit, I don't fill those shoes either).

wjk_glynn

Just FYI:


Switzerland has a population of 7.3 million.

The US has a population of 290 million.


On average, the Swiss donate $127/person.

On average, the US donates $44/person.


Karl.

SidViscous

That's through Foriegn aid. Or tax dollars distributed to foriegn governements. Those numbers don't reflect

A. Charitable donations.
B. Non fiscal aid (Japan and Germany for decades didn't need a strong military because we garaunted thier safety from invasion. Just one example)
C. Aid at home. Taking in immigrants, and in many cases giving them financial support.

EZRider

Talk about uninformed blindsided hypocritical claims. If you open your eyes you'll discover Switzerland during WWII colluded with Hitler's regime laundering **** money. Switzerland's neutrality sounds good in theory but in practice would never pass because nothing is free not even neutrality. You can now return to your regular USA bashing channel