Matt H

Too much work to properly respond the the above. Maybe another day.
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SidViscous

I never said that US troops weren't involved in attrocities, that's part of the ugly business of war.

What I said was that the US government and troops could never do something like the Rape of Nanking. The troops were ordered to do that by their governement. That's a whole lot different than something like the My Lai Massacre, which was the result of a small unit that basically went insane.

As to basic evilness, we have that too. You can't have 300 million people without having some really evil people, by the same token you can't condemn the whole country for the actions of a few. UNLESS the evil bastard is the leader of the country, then you still don't blame the whole country, but you still have to go in and get the evil c***sucker out.

Once again, a question of degree.

Ag951

Water944T is now one of my personal heroes! Great post.

Sid, have you ever been to Dresden?
The US utterly anihilated the entire city dropping more destruction than the two nuclear bombs dropped on Japan combined.
Why? US troops were across the Rhine, the Soviets were shelling Berlin, the Germans had about as much hope of winning as Hussein does right now.
It was a malicious act of vengence.

Red1

I resemble that comment. So now I'm an ignorant sumbitch? It's called tongue-in-cheek humor. I'm sorry if you missed it. I think others got my point.

If you think my poking fun at the word tautology was an indicator of my ignorance of the outside world, you know nothing of what you speak. I too have travelled. I challenge you to find anyone with the international experience I have. I deal in business with people from (at last count) 51 different countries, on a personal basis.

I paid my dues too. 12 years in an Army uniform was enough, thank you.

Now, if I mis-read you, and I got wrapped around the axle for nothing, I apologize.

iloveporsches

Water, great post. However, Friday night is fast approaching, and such serious discussions should be temporarily delayed

SidViscous

"not naming any names, but when people take pride in and boast of their ability to demonstrate ineptness in their native tounge, its just too sad."

Don't need to. I'm obviously one of those. It's not a matter of being illetrate, I would geuss that I read more than 95% of the people here. Literacy isn't the problem.

It's a dysfunction that many people have. It's not a matter of taking pride in not being able to spell, or work out basic grammar without greuling hours, it's a matter of not seeing it as a major problem in most circumstances, and I can't do anything about it anyways. In those times that it is important I work hard at it, and have other people review it. But I'm not about to pay my editor to check my posts on a bulletin board like this.

As annoyed as you are with people that have poor spelling, I get more annoyed at people who don't understand the issue and label them inept or stupid.

Matt H

Brian-
I dont think he was referring to you. BUT go get em anyway. :>)
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SidViscous

Ag there were similar actions in Japan as well, not to mention the dropping of two Atomic weapons. And it is not similar to the position we are in right now. No they weren't going to win, but they were still fighting. We were at war. In Nanking the Japanese had occupied the city for years, and it was a personal rape, torture and killing of civilians, women and children face to face. Not just a bombing of an industrial center.

And in the instance of Dresden it was the first time of a firebombing of that scale, it was fueled by local weather condintions. In reality what happened was a freak occourence, not a planned event. There is a drastic difference.

Red1

Sorry Matt, got my dander up. It's been a long day.

Sorry all. I apologize.

Mike B

I can't believe any person would say such a thing...Absolutely ridiculous, unfounded, stupid, unacceptable, insensitive, without merit and he should have his *** kicked! Hell, I would be happy to apply the *** kickin'.

Also, I would like to take this opportunity to separate myself from the Canadian Federal government...I hold NO views in commom with any of them and I wish we had a death penalty.

Ok, I'm done now.

SoCal Driver

So Matt, you got a moron for a professor?

So it is possible.

Legoland951

With what is said so far, I am so glad there are enough people who care enough to voice their opinion. I hate apathy much more than any opposing point of view and I believe its the biggest evil that will destroy this country. Wow, water944t, that was quite a post. I would love to see this country back to its old glory where we were respected as a country in the eyes of the rest of the world. Its been so long and I think its overdue.

Ag951

First off, Fat Man and Little Boy were not atomic bombs. Dynamite is an atomic reaction. The fission of plutonium or uranium or the fusion of hydrogen are nuclear reactions.

The Japanese and Chinese were also at war. Being at war does not justify either act.
The choice to go nuclear in Japan can be justified, because invading the islands would have probably cost more civilian lives (and far more military ones) than dropping the two nukes did.
Bombing a city surrounded by Panzer factories or SS training facilities would have been justified in war.
Dresden was neither. Dresden had no military value. It had no munitions factories, no refineries, no supply depots, and no bases (other than the POW camps where many Allied troops were killed by their own military). It was full of civilian refugees, who went there expressly because the allies had never hit it significantly before (because it had no value).
It was planned. It was carefully calculated. The dropped HE bombs to break up the buildings, exposing lots of kindling, then incendiary bombs to ignite the whole city, then more HE to disrupt fire fighters.
It's not an accident that 150,000 people were killed.
It was a cold-blooded massacre.

Ag951

The two go hand in hand.
Just as a free economy doesn't work without an knowlegeable consumer base, capable of making sound decisions, a free government doesn't work without educated voters.
Too many people are taught (in government run schools) that the government is the answer to all problems. Poverty in the inner city? The government will wage a War on Poverty. A small minority of the population has drug problems? The government will wage a War on Drugs. Homelessness is increasing? We'll declare a War on Homelessness.
Aside from the scary notion that the US government equates fixing a problem to declaring war, it's sad to note that all three of those 'wars', like most government solutions, has made the problem worse.

"Government is good at only one thing - it knows how to break your leg, hand you a crutch and say, 'See, without the government you couldn't walk."
--Harry Browne, Libertarian Presidential Candidate 1996, 2000

Red1

That got me thinking about what I do, so I rechecked my contacts. 58 countries. It had been awhile since I'd stopped to count. Guess I added some. I get my share of "world opinion".