Don't ever help this moron
09-13-2003, 02:27 AM
#136
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by SidViscous
So once again, you don't allow people to have opinions that you don't like. That's the whole key to the game. Allowing people to believe things, even when you disagree with them.
So once again, you don't allow people to have opinions that you don't like. That's the whole key to the game. Allowing people to believe things, even when you disagree with them.
I said I think your opinion is a bad idea, we're allowed to disagree. If you don't like something, you should try to change it, not ignore it.
You can try to ignore the government, but it's not going to ignore you.
Originally posted by Geo
Lastly, saying the IRS takes money by force is totally ignorant and you just lost a fair amount of respect in my eyes with that statement. You've done a pretty good job to this point of staying mostly unemotional in making your arguments, but that's pure monkey poo. For one thing, you have a choice. If you don't want to pay US taxes, you have a choice to go somewhere else.
Lastly, saying the IRS takes money by force is totally ignorant and you just lost a fair amount of respect in my eyes with that statement. You've done a pretty good job to this point of staying mostly unemotional in making your arguments, but that's pure monkey poo. For one thing, you have a choice. If you don't want to pay US taxes, you have a choice to go somewhere else.
First off, it is force, or rather threat of force that compels people to pay taxes. And have you ever tried to leave the US? You still have to pay taxes as long as you're a citizen. If you want to renounce your citizenship, you have to pay a huge amount of money. I doubt many people on this board could afford it. They passed that law to keep rich Americans from leaving and taking their money.
But more importantly, what is this "love it or leave it" bull**** attitude? If one of your neighbors started dumping trash on your yard, would you move or would you stay and fight for what's yours? If a bunch of idiots are screwing up something good, it's idiocy to leave. The smart action is to fight the idiots. So I do. I could try to physically resist them, as you suggest, but I'd be squashed quickly, so instead, I do my best to help the pro-freedom movement grow, eventually we'll win.
Originally posted by Geo
I don't know if you're using sarcasm here or something, but this is ridiculous at face value. The world is not always a nice place and not everyone means well. Just because we don't hurt anyone doesn't mean someone won't want to hurt us (using "we" and "us" in a more generic sense that talking about ours or another's government). This applies to individuals and to groups of individuals. The concept that if we just play nice with everyone we'll have nothing to worry about is naive.
I don't know if you're using sarcasm here or something, but this is ridiculous at face value. The world is not always a nice place and not everyone means well. Just because we don't hurt anyone doesn't mean someone won't want to hurt us (using "we" and "us" in a more generic sense that talking about ours or another's government). This applies to individuals and to groups of individuals. The concept that if we just play nice with everyone we'll have nothing to worry about is naive.
I didn't know they were so heavy in foreign aid (I'm a bit surprised, actually). I was calling their non-interventionist policy generosity, because they don't try to make other countries wear Lederhosen and eat good chocolate.
And yes, "some" foreign governments choose to accept the US aid, but some don't. Iraq didn't choose to let the US "free" it, that's why they shot at the US troops. I don't think Haiti wanted our "help" either.
And of the governments that do accept it, many are like South Vietnam, Saudi Arabia, or Colombia, where the aid is used to help prop up a US-friendly government that is very unpopular with its citizens. So we help the wannabe dictators of the world at the expense of their people.
And what do the people do? They grow to resent the US, and they join communist or fundamentalist resistance groups.
Originally posted by Moe
What cracks me up about some folks, is they somehow feel they are more "patriotic" than the next guy because they bash the USA in public, and wrap themselves in "free speech". I wonder if they bash their parents or children in public while claiming to be a wonderful family man.
Jeeze........
What cracks me up about some folks, is they somehow feel they are more "patriotic" than the next guy because they bash the USA in public, and wrap themselves in "free speech". I wonder if they bash their parents or children in public while claiming to be a wonderful family man.
Jeeze........
None of us are bashing the US, we're discussing the flaws of the current government policies.
The US is a great nation! The fact that we can have a discussion like this without having the KGB or SS knock down our doors and drag us off is proof of that!
Last edited by Ag951; 09-13-2003 at 02:43 AM.
09-13-2003, 03:14 AM
#137
Big thirst, Sore Thumbs
Rennlist Member
Napoleon
Rennlist Member
Napoleon
Changing ideas and loosing respect are different things.
But fair enough, fair cop, I retract my hostility on that comment.
But fair enough, fair cop, I retract my hostility on that comment.
09-13-2003, 04:34 AM
#138
And perhaps someday, hundreds or thousands of years in the future, the basics tenets of this country will be used to forge an even greater state, much like we used the best of many of the world's great civilizations' tenets to forge ours. For ours will likely fall someday. Maybe in hundreds of years. Maybe in thousands. But history suggests it will happen.
09-13-2003, 09:44 AM
#140
Race Director
Originally posted by Ag951
But more importantly, what is this "love it or leave it" bull**** attitude?
But more importantly, what is this "love it or leave it" bull**** attitude?
Never implied it.
I simply pointed out that you have a choice. What's more is you make a choice. You choose to stay here.
Originally posted by Ag951
If one of your neighbors started dumping trash on your yard, would you move or would you stay and fight for what's yours? If a bunch of idiots are screwing up something good, it's idiocy to leave. The smart action is to fight the idiots.
If one of your neighbors started dumping trash on your yard, would you move or would you stay and fight for what's yours? If a bunch of idiots are screwing up something good, it's idiocy to leave. The smart action is to fight the idiots.
Originally posted by Ag951
I could try to physically resist them, as you suggest, but I'd be squashed quickly, so instead, I do my best to help the pro-freedom movement grow, eventually we'll win.
I could try to physically resist them, as you suggest, but I'd be squashed quickly, so instead, I do my best to help the pro-freedom movement grow, eventually we'll win.
Originally posted by Ag951
I used Switzerland as an example of generosity for a reason. When was the last time a terrorist bomb went off in Bern? How many Russian subs or Chinese ICBMs are targetting Geneva?
I used Switzerland as an example of generosity for a reason. When was the last time a terrorist bomb went off in Bern? How many Russian subs or Chinese ICBMs are targetting Geneva?
Originally posted by Ag951
I didn't know they were so heavy in foreign aid (I'm a bit surprised, actually). I was calling their non-interventionist policy generosity, because they don't try to make other countries wear Lederhosen and eat good chocolate.
I didn't know they were so heavy in foreign aid (I'm a bit surprised, actually). I was calling their non-interventionist policy generosity, because they don't try to make other countries wear Lederhosen and eat good chocolate.
Originally posted by Ag951
So we help the wannabe dictators of the world at the expense of their people. And what do the people do? They grow to resent the US, and they join communist or fundamentalist resistance groups.
So we help the wannabe dictators of the world at the expense of their people. And what do the people do? They grow to resent the US, and they join communist or fundamentalist resistance groups.
But, we are still the most generous country the world has ever known. We give lots of help and aid that does not come with strings attached.
I'm all for looking at our faults in the mirror. But at the same time, let's be fair too.
09-13-2003, 01:49 PM
#142
Racer
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 380
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok, First time posting in this thread but here is my view.
What happened on 9/11 was horrible. Nothing I say is trying to make it less so. What I think we should realize though is it is just a wakeup call. Things like this happen all over the world, and we rarely hear about it. I think its just an eye-opener. I did have friends of my family lost that day, and I think we have every right to be PISSED AS HELL at whoever did this.
What happened on 9/11 was horrible. Nothing I say is trying to make it less so. What I think we should realize though is it is just a wakeup call. Things like this happen all over the world, and we rarely hear about it. I think its just an eye-opener. I did have friends of my family lost that day, and I think we have every right to be PISSED AS HELL at whoever did this.
09-13-2003, 05:28 PM
#143
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Geo
Never said that.
Never implied it.
I simply pointed out that you have a choice. What's more is you make a choice. You choose to stay here.
Never said that.
Never implied it.
I simply pointed out that you have a choice. What's more is you make a choice. You choose to stay here.
I never suggested physically resisting. I suggested that you again have a choice. If you truly have the courage of your conviction like the Founding Fathers did, you could choose not to pay taxes.
You know what? Nobody knows. I'd bet there are plenty targeting Switzerland. They are a world banking center and chances are high somebody (if not everybody) wants the option of disrupting that.
Krushev never pounded his shoe and said he'd bury Switzerland. Terrorists don't target them.
Yeah, you're 100% correct there. We use money as leverage. IMHO we do it too often, although I don't think we should ever stop it completely. Some people resent the USA because we can use money as leverage.
But, we are still the most generous country the world has ever known. We give lots of help and aid that does not come with strings attached.
I'm all for looking at our faults in the mirror. But at the same time, let's be fair too.
But, we are still the most generous country the world has ever known. We give lots of help and aid that does not come with strings attached.
I'm all for looking at our faults in the mirror. But at the same time, let's be fair too.
09-13-2003, 05:35 PM
#144
Burning Brakes
We are evil? We hand out billions of dollars every year to your backward fuggin countrys that are still in the freakin stone age. Like Bill Mahr said "I haven't seen anything of value invented by anyone named Abuu" Maybe if they would get their $hit together in the middle east the world would be a better place. They have been fighting for 3,000 fuggin years for jebus sakes. I say screw them, in fact the world would be a much better place if we just nuked that entire area back into the stone age.........oh wait, they still are in the stone age. Eh, screw them.
09-13-2003, 05:43 PM
#145
You're right. The world would be a better if we commited mass genocide and wiped out the entire area's population. 
The US government isn't evil, but they do plenty of evil things. They prop up dictators and despots all around the world. Just look into all the garbage the CIA did during the Cold War.
And for the most part, all of our aid money comes with major strings attached. Just look at what we did before the Iraq War. We threatened Turkey that we wouldn't give them any aid unless they do exactly what we want. We have to buy our allies now. Of course, there's money like what goes to Africa to fight AIDS and such that is genuinly philanthropic, but most money we give is because we got something in return.
The US government isn't evil, but they do plenty of evil things. They prop up dictators and despots all around the world. Just look into all the garbage the CIA did during the Cold War.
And for the most part, all of our aid money comes with major strings attached. Just look at what we did before the Iraq War. We threatened Turkey that we wouldn't give them any aid unless they do exactly what we want. We have to buy our allies now. Of course, there's money like what goes to Africa to fight AIDS and such that is genuinly philanthropic, but most money we give is because we got something in return.
09-13-2003, 07:12 PM
#146
Originally posted by iloveporsches
And for the most part, all of our aid money comes with major strings attached. Just look at what we did before the Iraq War. We threatened Turkey that we wouldn't give them any aid unless they do exactly what we want. We have to buy our allies now. Of course, there's money like what goes to Africa to fight AIDS and such that is genuinly philanthropic, but most money we give is because we got something in return.
And for the most part, all of our aid money comes with major strings attached. Just look at what we did before the Iraq War. We threatened Turkey that we wouldn't give them any aid unless they do exactly what we want. We have to buy our allies now. Of course, there's money like what goes to Africa to fight AIDS and such that is genuinly philanthropic, but most money we give is because we got something in return.
There were serious concerns that Turkey had its own agenda with Iraq, sending its own troops in to "secure" the north, which was essentially taking over that land for their own use. Every country the US tries to work with involves a tradeoff of plusses and minuses.
There are plenty of international agencies (such as the IMF) that also play god with the money they distribute (loan and forgive) into various lost causes around the world.
09-13-2003, 07:23 PM
#147
Burning Brakes
^^^Nothing in life is free
And you and I know the nuke comment is one thrown around all the time so chill out.
The fact remains that wilthout the United States the world would be a worse off place. My family came to the United States in the early 1900s from Spain, Puerto Rico, and Corsica because of the opportunities here. It is still that way.
But the fact remains, it's been 3,000 to 4,000 years of turmoil in that region. If things remain the way they are that region will be the start of another world war.
Listen I'm not here to really argue about the good and bad that the United States has done. But the Unitied States has done WAY more good than it has done bad. And any bad it's done has been to protect it's own interests which is no different than any other country would do. Blowing yourself up and killing 100s of innocent civilians is protecting your interests right?
And you and I know the nuke comment is one thrown around all the time so chill out.
The fact remains that wilthout the United States the world would be a worse off place. My family came to the United States in the early 1900s from Spain, Puerto Rico, and Corsica because of the opportunities here. It is still that way.
But the fact remains, it's been 3,000 to 4,000 years of turmoil in that region. If things remain the way they are that region will be the start of another world war.
Listen I'm not here to really argue about the good and bad that the United States has done. But the Unitied States has done WAY more good than it has done bad. And any bad it's done has been to protect it's own interests which is no different than any other country would do. Blowing yourself up and killing 100s of innocent civilians is protecting your interests right?
09-13-2003, 07:45 PM
#148
...or, the other way of looking at it is, noone will help us unless they are paid for their services, even if they agree with us in principle. Is the United States the evil party if everyone is looking for a handout in exchange for help?
And you and I know the nuke comment is one thrown around all the time so chill out.
The fact remains that wilthout the United States the world would be a worse off place. My family came to the United States in the early 1900s from Spain, Puerto Rico, and Corsica because of the opportunities here. It is still that way.
But the fact remains, it's been 3,000 to 4,000 years of turmoil in that region. If things remain the way they are that region will be the start of another world war.
But the fact remains, it's been 3,000 to 4,000 years of turmoil in that region. If things remain the way they are that region will be the start of another world war.
Listen I'm not here to really argue about the good and bad that the United States has done. But the Unitied States has done WAY more good than it has done bad. And any bad it's done has been to protect it's own interests which is no different than any other country would do. Blowing yourself up and killing 100s of innocent civilians is protecting your interests right?
09-13-2003, 08:12 PM
#149
Race Director
Originally posted by 89magic98
Is the United States the evil party if everyone is looking for a handout in exchange for help?
Is the United States the evil party if everyone is looking for a handout in exchange for help?
Who is the guilty party? The *****? Or the person who pays the *****?
