Don't ever help this moron
09-12-2003, 07:54 PM
#91
Actually, none of the people who took offense at my comment about illiteracy were its target, sorry if I hit the wrong bullseye. I would never penalize someone for a legitimate disability. It is the people who are capable, but too lazy to bother, that are the source of my disdain.
I hope no one took my comments as being anti-American in nature, nothing could be further from the truth. I am fervently patriotic, and the slow decay of this nation hurts my sense of justice.
It is easy to put the blame on the government, they are after all, a big ponderous target. But the truth is, the blame lies in the blanket of apathy that lies over the people of this country. It seems as long as the Bic Macs are still flowing, and we can dream of J-Lo and Ben getting jiggy, we don't really care about much else. And its getting worse. The generation that is coming of age right now is in for a terrible shock, the job market is vanishing, the tech industry is moving offshore, and the educational system has failed them by allowing substandard work to be accepted. When kids fail, we lower the standards, instead of making them try harder. What kind of screwed-up logic is that?
I have 2 kids, both of whom are extremely intelligent, so much so that the public schools are at a loss as to how to handle them. Their teachers can't teach more difficult materials, since the majority of the other kids in the class were educated by MTV. And to make it worse, almost all of the 'advanced' programs (gifted and talented, ect..) are so poorly funded that they are lucky to see a teacher once a week, for an hour. So we home school them as much as possible, but that just means less time for them to be kids at the end of the day.
And then I turn on the TV, to find nothing but reality shows about who can eat the grossest bugs, or **** themselves out the most. I saw a report on who the Europeans saw as the most influential American in history was...you simply cannot believe who won...
Homer Simpson, handily beating out Lincoln and Washington.
That is how the rest of the world sees us, one big dopey fat ***.
I hope no one took my comments as being anti-American in nature, nothing could be further from the truth. I am fervently patriotic, and the slow decay of this nation hurts my sense of justice.
It is easy to put the blame on the government, they are after all, a big ponderous target. But the truth is, the blame lies in the blanket of apathy that lies over the people of this country. It seems as long as the Bic Macs are still flowing, and we can dream of J-Lo and Ben getting jiggy, we don't really care about much else. And its getting worse. The generation that is coming of age right now is in for a terrible shock, the job market is vanishing, the tech industry is moving offshore, and the educational system has failed them by allowing substandard work to be accepted. When kids fail, we lower the standards, instead of making them try harder. What kind of screwed-up logic is that?
I have 2 kids, both of whom are extremely intelligent, so much so that the public schools are at a loss as to how to handle them. Their teachers can't teach more difficult materials, since the majority of the other kids in the class were educated by MTV. And to make it worse, almost all of the 'advanced' programs (gifted and talented, ect..) are so poorly funded that they are lucky to see a teacher once a week, for an hour. So we home school them as much as possible, but that just means less time for them to be kids at the end of the day.
And then I turn on the TV, to find nothing but reality shows about who can eat the grossest bugs, or **** themselves out the most. I saw a report on who the Europeans saw as the most influential American in history was...you simply cannot believe who won...
Homer Simpson, handily beating out Lincoln and Washington.
That is how the rest of the world sees us, one big dopey fat ***.
09-12-2003, 07:58 PM
#93
SoCal - she was not a moron, actually had worked with the President of Jordan. She just didnt like to be questioned. That being said higher education is to teach you to think and learn not feed you facts, people who know how to think and learn will seek facts on their own. Unfortunately, this was not the case for me. I graduated but did not have great grades due mostly to my lack of interest in the facts I was being fed.
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
09-12-2003, 07:58 PM
#94
Water, it's great to see that most people here don't equate being patriotic and American with blindly following the president and supporting every action our government takes.
America is the best place in the world to live. Some may reasonably argue other countries, and that's fine. But what isn't so great about America is the way we treat everyone else. We tell Europe they are insignificant, we tell the mideast "anyone could be next", and we've had our hands in more bloody affairs around the world than I care to think about. Our foreign policy is atrocious and the root of our international problems.
The blind, flag-waving patriots in this country need to try and see the US from another country's perspective, and try to understand why not everyone likes us and why our allies may not always support us.
America is the best place in the world to live. Some may reasonably argue other countries, and that's fine. But what isn't so great about America is the way we treat everyone else. We tell Europe they are insignificant, we tell the mideast "anyone could be next", and we've had our hands in more bloody affairs around the world than I care to think about. Our foreign policy is atrocious and the root of our international problems.
The blind, flag-waving patriots in this country need to try and see the US from another country's perspective, and try to understand why not everyone likes us and why our allies may not always support us.
09-12-2003, 08:05 PM
#95
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Water944t
I hope no one took my comments are being anti-American in nature, nothing could be further from the truth. I am fervently patriotic, and the slow decay of this nation hurts my sense of justice.
I hope no one took my comments are being anti-American in nature, nothing could be further from the truth. I am fervently patriotic, and the slow decay of this nation hurts my sense of justice.
Tell me who [are] the real patriots
The Archie Bunker slobs waving flags
Or the people with the guts to work for some real change?
...
Saying, "love it, or leave it"
I get beat up if I criticize it
--Dead Kennedys, Stars and Stripes of Corruption
09-12-2003, 08:10 PM
#96
Big thirst, Sore Thumbs
Rennlist Member
Napoleon
Rennlist Member
Napoleon
Atomic bombs was and is part of the lexicon meaning bombs utilizing a fission reaction of U235 or Plutonium, I wasn't aware this was a semantic arguement. But to put that part of the discusion to rest http://www.2think.org/rhodes.shtml he wasn't writing about Alfred Nobel.
Back to the discusion at hand.
Dresden was a target. Yes they did use HE to break up the buildings, and then used Napalm to start them afire. You are exactly right. Before Dresden they had been using one or the other exclusively (HE bombs of Napalm). They then found that by combining the two they could get better results. Dresden was the fist full scale bombing using this technique to that degree. Combined with local weather condintions it created a fire of unbelieavable devestation. BUT THIS WAS NOT EXPECTED. They expected to add 2 and 2 and get 5 or 6 instead they got 20. It is similar to the first Dry Fusion Bomb. Lithium Deuteuride was used. It was expected that the sparce Li7 would fuse, as well as the Deutirium. Calculations were done and it was not expected that the Li6 would undergo a Fusion reaction. Instead it Fissioned, creating exotic lighter elements that then underwent Fusion, letting the reaction runaway to 25 megatons, irradiating those observing the test, as well as some Japenese fishing boats and thier catch. But it was not intended.
As to the target. During WW II Civilians become strategic targets. This is unfortunate. However, it began after the Germans and Japanese attacked civilian targets. They gave the precedence and it continues to this day. Yes it is terrible what happened at Dresden but it is my honest belief that civilian centers would not have been allied targets without Axis provocation. Remember the Germans started by bombing and using missles against London. Turn about is fair play.
The lesson is to not attack the US in a way that you do not want to be attacked, because we will be better at it. It's a lesson that has been learned. Hence state sponored terrorisim (Libya today just accepted blame for Lockerbee) becuase they know that we wont attack cities and nations on the basis of what terroists do, due to the tenuous link. Nor will we sponsor terrorisim (On a grand scale) because we find it ethically wrong.
But I must ask. AG. If we are as Evil as Hitler, Tojo, Saddam et al, why do you still live here. It's not a get out you pinko statement. But if you can't see the difference I don't see how you could bare it.
Back to the discusion at hand.
Dresden was a target. Yes they did use HE to break up the buildings, and then used Napalm to start them afire. You are exactly right. Before Dresden they had been using one or the other exclusively (HE bombs of Napalm). They then found that by combining the two they could get better results. Dresden was the fist full scale bombing using this technique to that degree. Combined with local weather condintions it created a fire of unbelieavable devestation. BUT THIS WAS NOT EXPECTED. They expected to add 2 and 2 and get 5 or 6 instead they got 20. It is similar to the first Dry Fusion Bomb. Lithium Deuteuride was used. It was expected that the sparce Li7 would fuse, as well as the Deutirium. Calculations were done and it was not expected that the Li6 would undergo a Fusion reaction. Instead it Fissioned, creating exotic lighter elements that then underwent Fusion, letting the reaction runaway to 25 megatons, irradiating those observing the test, as well as some Japenese fishing boats and thier catch. But it was not intended.
As to the target. During WW II Civilians become strategic targets. This is unfortunate. However, it began after the Germans and Japanese attacked civilian targets. They gave the precedence and it continues to this day. Yes it is terrible what happened at Dresden but it is my honest belief that civilian centers would not have been allied targets without Axis provocation. Remember the Germans started by bombing and using missles against London. Turn about is fair play.
The lesson is to not attack the US in a way that you do not want to be attacked, because we will be better at it. It's a lesson that has been learned. Hence state sponored terrorisim (Libya today just accepted blame for Lockerbee) becuase they know that we wont attack cities and nations on the basis of what terroists do, due to the tenuous link. Nor will we sponsor terrorisim (On a grand scale) because we find it ethically wrong.
But I must ask. AG. If we are as Evil as Hitler, Tojo, Saddam et al, why do you still live here. It's not a get out you pinko statement. But if you can't see the difference I don't see how you could bare it.
09-12-2003, 08:18 PM
#97
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally posted by Water944t
That is how the rest of the world sees us, one big dopey fat ***.
That is how the rest of the world sees us, one big dopey fat ***.
It's pretty sad. Since I see so many different peoples, sometimes I feel like a mini-ambassador. It gets interesting. Speaking of which, some Indians owe me money. Time to go collect.
09-12-2003, 08:18 PM
#98
Big thirst, Sore Thumbs
Rennlist Member
Napoleon
Rennlist Member
Napoleon
To your last point.
I agree the government has it's problems and requires an overhaul. We had this discusion elsewhere under current ant-smoking laws. Yes the government does a lot of wrong.
We probably just disagree an where and when. But that's the main point. If you understand that other peoples opinions are just as valid as your own. And then be ruled by basic guidlines of individual freedom and protection, and limit the government to governing, and not trying to "fix" the economy, of project our beliefs onto others, then most of this wont be an issue.
Unfortunately the rest of the world would probably go to hell at the same time, and all of them would want to move here.
I agree the government has it's problems and requires an overhaul. We had this discusion elsewhere under current ant-smoking laws. Yes the government does a lot of wrong.
We probably just disagree an where and when. But that's the main point. If you understand that other peoples opinions are just as valid as your own. And then be ruled by basic guidlines of individual freedom and protection, and limit the government to governing, and not trying to "fix" the economy, of project our beliefs onto others, then most of this wont be an issue.
Unfortunately the rest of the world would probably go to hell at the same time, and all of them would want to move here.
09-12-2003, 08:30 PM
#99
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Fairfax Station, Va
Posts: 1,228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think this post is getting a bit off track. In my opinion the people still posting on this are most likely well educated, well spoken, and worldly people. I would like to think of myself as the same. The point is, what was originally posted was void of any human compaction. NO ONE has the right to say that one human’s life is worth more than another. An American's death or any others is still a human death. Our country was built on the fact that from birth you have a right to believe what you want. If one wants to believe in what the 9/11 terrorist’s beloved in, than that is there right. But to believe in death and to believe in what they did is grossly un human. Through my friendship with some choice individuals in DC I have been made aware of horrifying acts that our government has committed and or allowed. I state this only to show that I am not blinded to the fact that as Americans our hands are not clean of innocent blood.
09-12-2003, 08:36 PM
#100
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by SidViscous
As to the target. During WW II Civilians become strategic targets. This is unfortunate. However, it began after the Germans and Japanese attacked civilian targets.
...
But I must ask. AG. If we are as Evil as Hitler, Tojo, Saddam et al, why do you still live here. It's not a get out you pinko statement. But if you can't see the difference I don't see how you could bare it.
As to the target. During WW II Civilians become strategic targets. This is unfortunate. However, it began after the Germans and Japanese attacked civilian targets.
...
But I must ask. AG. If we are as Evil as Hitler, Tojo, Saddam et al, why do you still live here. It's not a get out you pinko statement. But if you can't see the difference I don't see how you could bare it.
It's "Ag" btw, not "AG", as in "Silver 951".
I don't think Roosevelt was as evil as Hitler. I think only Stalin, Pol Pot, and a few others come close.
I'd say Hirohito and Saddam are more along the level of cruel despot than the vile disgusting sub-human level of a Hitler or Stalin.
I never even said the US was evil (it was actually a Brit who ordered the firebombing), just that it's not perfect and has done some bad things. Overall it's a good country.
I could say the same about you, me, or just about any person.
And why on Earth would I leave? This country has an excellent foundation: the best in the History of civilization. If any country has a chance of becoming a truly free and prosperous nation, it's the US. And if the world has a chance at it, it will be by following the US' example.
If anybody's going to leave it should be the Bushes, Cheneys, Liebermans, and Deans (Ashcroft should stay so we can put him in prison where he belongs). Get rid of all the fascists and socialists, and we'd have an even better country than we do today.
If there was a country where they used the US Constitution (without the 16th and 17th amendments), and the Congress and Supreme Court actually read the thing before making decisions, I'd probably go there. But there is no such place, so I'll stay here and make one!
Originally posted by SidViscous
If you understand that other peoples opinions are just as valid as your own. And then be ruled by basic guidlines of individual freedom and protection, and limit the government to governing, and not trying to "fix" the economy, of project our beliefs onto others, then most of this wont be an issue.
If you understand that other peoples opinions are just as valid as your own. And then be ruled by basic guidlines of individual freedom and protection, and limit the government to governing, and not trying to "fix" the economy, of project our beliefs onto others, then most of this wont be an issue.
Of course what should I expect from a New Hampshirian (Hampshirist?).
"Live free or die!"
09-12-2003, 08:43 PM
#101
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Does everybody think they know whats REALLY goin on?
I don't think we (general public) have a clue. We are fed certain facts by the media, and most the time they are guessin.
Get a grip, we have officials that take care of these things and it would be insane for the general public to know everything, because our enimies would know also.
I don't think we (general public) have a clue. We are fed certain facts by the media, and most the time they are guessin.
Get a grip, we have officials that take care of these things and it would be insane for the general public to know everything, because our enimies would know also.
09-12-2003, 08:51 PM
#102
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Moe
Does everybody think they know whats REALLY goin on?
I don't think we (general public) have a clue. We are fed certain facts by the media, and most the time they are guessin.
Get a grip, we have officials that take care of these things and it would be insane for the general public to know everything, because our enimies would know also.
Does everybody think they know whats REALLY goin on?
I don't think we (general public) have a clue. We are fed certain facts by the media, and most the time they are guessin.
Get a grip, we have officials that take care of these things and it would be insane for the general public to know everything, because our enimies would know also.
A free society can't exist if the government hides important things from it. Yes they have black ops and secret projects, but the vast majority of it is out there for us to see.
A truly free society shouldn't have enemies to hide things from. Why would anybody hate us if we have done nothing to hurt them?
And that statement about officials taking care of things is scary. That's precisely the attitude that puts despots in power.
Jefferson, who was fond of writing of the virtues of a free press, believed that a free press and educated public (not people being "fed" the guesses of the media) were the best defense against autocracy.
