SidViscous

Our problem was A. We didn't hold ground, B. we didn't take it to NV. Our body count would have been higher too if it werent' for the introduction of the M-16. Regardless, we made a lot of mistakes and some humility every once in awhile is a good thing.


That new?

Ag951

Even invading NV wouldn't have won the war, since the people didn't want us there. We would have been required to occupy every square inch of the country forever, unless we could implement a civilian system that the vast majority would follow.
That's one reason the US occupation of Japan was so discreet. MacArthur was in total command, but proclamations came from the Emperor or the Parliment, not from the US Army. So the Japanese people followed the Japanese government, which just happened to get all of its decisions from MacArthur.
And over the years, the Japanese people changed to a western open society.

SidViscous

Kind of an odd thing just happened, and it has some relevance here.

On a forum I used to be on we had a moderator, but he was alot more to us than that. The fact that 3 of us are traveling to London to meet with the others of the forum to honor his passing two years ago kind of shows what kind of guy he was. Keeping in mind we had never met him in person.

Anyways, he kept us in line, from going over the edge. Myself included. Someone asked about him, and why he was so important. In writing a brief description I included some quotes (we saved every post he had ever made). I cam across this. Just think it means something in this discusion.

To clarify a little. He considered himself a Hermit, he lived inthe mountains of Oregon.
______________________________________________________
Nah, no money, no down payments. Hermiting is a state of mind. Mine
happens to be Oregon. But it can be in your back yard on a warm summer
evening and not a damned thing in the world can touch ya. Cold days,
warm fire anda real good book are hermiting tricks too.
Hermiting is realizing both sides are crazy as h3ll and that more than
likely your own opinion is too but it's ok. Hermiting is realizing the
world is always gonna suck, some times worse than others and worse in
some places than others, so if ya can't do anything to improve it, for
christs sakes don't do anything to make worse!!! Hermiting is at least
caring about it though.
That's the lesson for this evening.
Snail mail address gladly sent upon email request. ewww.
Eschew Obfuscation
The Hermit

Devia

"Don't let yesterday use up too much of today." - Cherokee Indian Proverb

Wow, interesting...and I wasn't invited to the party on this thread until today.

Vietnam and Korea were border wars; we didn't invade, so we couldn't win.

In US history, anytime the US fought a war to win, and not keep borders, we won.

I'm afraid that I have too much personal baggage to see things clearly here, ie, what I said personally about the WTC. And then there's my concern for the Afghanistan citizens and the Iraqi citizens.

They want the fighting to stop, they want a life; but they are caught in an internal tug of war themselves.

They will just be happy when the fighting stops and they are allowed to walk across the street and not be shot at by anyone.

The children of both countries are suffering horribly right now, and education just blows.

If you'd like to actually help educate (funny how educated people tend to like the US) the children of Afghanistan, you can; either with money or much needed school supplies, go to: http://www.schoolsuppliesforafghanis...supplies.shtml

You can pick teachers or students, and pack up some of the listed supplies, or send a donation.

I strongly feel that helping to educate the poor people is the best way to win Allies.

- Julie

BeerBurner

Now you see, I'll actually argue that we "won" the Vietnam War, although that argument is based on perspective.

Our goal in Vietnam was to keep the North from taking over the South. Admittedly, for ten years we never really accomplished anything. Was it because the NVA and Viet Cong were superior fighters? Not really. But they were committed to the cause, and we weren't. All of our rules of engagement meant that we could never really pursue our advantages.

So, the war dragged on for ten years while we dicked around. Nothing was being accomplished, and the North withdrew from the peace talks. On December 18, 1972 we decided to commit to ending the war. As part of Operation Linebacker 2, over 100 B-52s took off from Thailand and Guam, heading for targets in Hanoi and Haiphong. Eleven days later, there were simply no targets of consequence left in the North, and they were forced to return to the peace talks. On January 27, 1973 the Paris Peace Accords were signed, and the war was over. While we may not have "won" the war in your traditional sense, we accomplished out goal, which was to keep South Vietnam from falling to the North.

Now, some people are probably saying "well, what about those images of the last helicopter evacuating people from Saigon right before it fell?"

Well, that is true, South Vietnam did eventually fall. But as far as I'm concerned, that was a second war. There was no significant US force left in the South that was in a combat role, and we weren't about to re-engage. And as far as I'm concerned, how could we have lost a war in 1975 if we ended our involvement in 1973?

Of course, that's just my biased perspective...

BB.

Chris_924s

Now that I dont live there any more- can we bomb Illinois???

j/k...
I have remained mostly a bystander as I have limited internet time- (It's taken me 3 days to complete reading this)
Isn't it OUR policy (The US) to help foreign countries in a "good will" gesture. sure- atrocities have occured, as have great strides toward peace.

I just hope that the rest of the world doesnt think we are boorish, war hungry pigs as they do think of "us" in the middle east. This is a great country with great freedoms that allow us to speak our minds and follow our individual destiny.
It our political system that allows murders to go free, and rights allowed to our incarcerated.

Lets get a petition rolling to legalize everything in one state. send all the incarcerated there. allow civil unrest. build tall walls and barbed wire.

Oh it exists- it's Palestine.
Regardless on how anyone feels, the US has spent more dollars defending Israel than infrastructure upgrades in any US state. and spent more dollars in war reparations from WWII than on the US infrastructure as a whole.

There is NO utopian society, But this is what we have, and God bless it. Lives have been lost for centuries to protect what we have, and I for one am thankful.

Graufuchs

Hmmmn..everybodys very quick to jump down throats....ALL MY COMMENTS WERE MEANT FOR WICKED951!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I" wouldnt harm a fly...but I know alot of other people that may get physical if they heard that!!!!!! -refering to what WICKED951 said for those who are not on the same mental page... -chris

OriginalSterm

where is wicked951 in all of this to stand up for what he said???

Jeff928S4

He has been killed by Ashcroft. First causality of the Patriot Act II.

944S Boyeee

Ag951

I thought the 4th Amendment was the first casualty...oh wait, it was destroyed by the first "patriot" act.

Devia

Chris - Movie already made on that, called "Escape from New York".

Ag951

And Escape from LA.
I'm waiting for Escape from Chicago. It should be next.

jp944

I hate Illinois *****.

jp

Graufuchs

IN case you missed it the first time.............

SidViscous

I didn't lie to you. I just took the liberty of ahhhh <shrug> bullsh*tting ya.