Archimedes

Yeah, you read my comment wrong. It wasn’t intended as a negative at all. It was advice to keep the car, as it clearly is worth a lot to you. I haven’t **** on a for sale ad in years. If I wanted to **** on your ad, I simply would have said that your car is overpriced. See, that’s going negative.

MaddMike

Because that is boring as hell. There is a reason why sites like BAT and Cars & Bids allow discussion as it drives traffic and is very educational. I personally love the discussions in marketplace. Granted, if it is all negative it is not helpful but if someone is pricing out of market they won't sell anyway. I find the back and forth valuable as both a buyer and a seller.

The world changes and so should Rennlist if they want to remain relevant.

neteng101

Wouldn't assume it was a flip for sure - some people just have to have the latest and greatest. Probably saw the Spyder RS announcement drop and just had to have that instead!

In any case - you forgot to include BAT fees, so with that it might be even more they spent for those few miles.

TXshaggy

$126,000 was the hammer price that went to the seller, so didn’t forget anything. Seller doesn’t get any of the BAT fees.

I don’t understand your comment with respect to the Spyder RS, no allocations have dropped in the US.

Seller picked up in May, sold in August and only drove it 700 miles. We can speculate on why, but it wasn’t to get an RS. If you wanted an RS you give it back to a dealer below book.

momo360

There's a lot of doh with this build Nav with Connect is a waste of money...can you even hear the burmester with the thin tent covering...also after spending all that he skipped PDLS+...also PDK...also black...like this was not a very well thought out spec. Buyer paid 131. I'd rather pay 120 for a 110 msrp in a better color and manual. Generally people say options don't increase value (i'd argue some do...but there's a lot here that doesn't).

momo360

I don't see the harm in pointing out when a car has been listed at an egregious out of touch price point. You post examples of recent sales, and people who are interested in the car also can see what is the market rate. It's like letting people go to dealerships and pay markup on a Camry because the sales guy told them it's so hot right now. That's why sites like leasehackr exist where people cross check each other and offer market pricing making it easier for consumers to benefit and get good deals while the dealer and broker make money too. It's a win-win for everyone.

J-Rod

I'm sure the spec of that BAT car didn't help the final sales price. That being said, it closed around ~100% of MSRP (including fees). That brings the average over the last several months on BAT for 718 Spyders to ~ 105% of MSRP (including fees).

Obviously other cars are transacting at different prices (above and below MSRP), but these are sales everyone can see (and compare directly to MSRP). It's not definitively "the market", but to a lot of prospective buyers it's a "representative market."

J-Rod

If the $5k shouldn't matter to buyers in this price range, then it should be equally meaningless to sellers in that range, correct? (Perhaps this was implied in your response, but it didn't read that way, so apologies if it was.) Yet somehow $5k prevents a ton of sales at cars in this price range. Heck, Don Fitzpatrick said he passed on a sale because the buyer was $2k too low (FYI, not criticizing Don here, he should sell at whatever price he is willing to).

If a seller doesn't want to sell below a certain price, they don't have to. But insinuating buyers should ignore broader market conditions, and that if they can't/won't they shouldn't buy the car is kind of silly.

Just because I can afford to absorb $30k in depreciation on a car in 1-2 years doesn't mean I want to, or should. Most people who end up with the money to afford these toys didn't get there by taking $30k beatings on a whim.

85Gold

Most people who cant buy these cars are in hock and have a hard time getting financing. I would say the people who need affirmation for their purchases are not decision makers but salary drones. Just an observation from an old Farmer.
Decision makers make a decision and act on it ie don't spend time whining on RL about how unfair the buyers or sellers are.
Peter

Archimedes

Including fees? Those fees have nothing to do with the car and they don’t accrue to the seller. They are payment for sales services to a third party. Irrelevant to the market value of the car.

Archimedes

A lot to unpack in that wacky overgeneralization.

SockToy

Its certainly not irrelevant. Market value is set by two parties; what the seller is willing to accepta nd what the buyer is willing to pay. If I can buy the exact same car from somewhere without the BaT 5k Im going to - the market value is what the buyers will pay, and if the BaT markup puts it out of reach its over market, even if the seller is 'at market'

That said, I agree this build has problems. Red interior, PDK, no LED lights, markup for Nav/Burmester, sofas not buckets, etc. I'm sure it fits well for someone looking for a commuter/cruiser, but it isnt the low volume 'driving enthusiast' build that can attract a premium due to rarity (lwbs, manual, led, interesting colour, etc)

hf1

The BaT fee reflects the value added from BaT exposure, comments, and pre-selection. I would say that the market value of a non-BaT car would be somewhere in between the BaT hammer price (HP) + BaT fee and the HP -- much closer, if not equal to the HP.

Are LED lights really in such high demand? I heard the xenons are lighter. If so, they'd be more fitting to a lightweight enthusiast build (lwbs, pccb, ...). And how often will a non-daily, backroads enthusiast car be driven at night to make a difference?

SockToy

I only really have three sources to determine importance; the number of cars built with certain options, where available to the public, the sentiment of people looking on enthusiast forums, and personal opinion

for the led lights, my opinion, unsubstantiated, is that they’re important - especially on a build speccing for driving. I do not daily my spyder but I do road trip it and drive at night and lights are, for me, a key safety feature. I actually preferred the look of the xenons, but chose pdls+ anyway,

Clark_Kent

This vehicle is MY23. Depending on production date, some of the options in question weren't even available. Specifically, LWBS, PTS, and PDLS+. Given the low volume of production of the 718 Spyder and GT4 (~2,480 and ~3,208 respectively), the ability to be selective over build spec will begin to wane as people realize this. Statistically there's also a likelihood a prospective buyer's "dream spec" may have never even been produced to be resold given the possibile permutations. I expect there to be some serious compromises if one truly wants one of these cars secondhand.