The Giant EV General Discussion Thread
08-09-2023, 06:07 PM
#301
08-09-2023, 06:21 PM
#302
The question is, if offered side-by-side for approximately the same price, would people take a GTS 4.0 with the sound and analog feel or would they take a heavier, silent, digital 718 EV that will destroy the GTS, at least on the street. Speed does matter in a sports car and it does become an interesting choice. It's kind of strange when a 4 door sedan or even an SUV from Tesla can annihilate your "sports car."
For me, after driving a Tesla for many years, I would absolutely take the GTS or any flavor of the ICE 718 over the EV version. Acceleration is slower, but everything else that brings driving enjoyment is on a different level. I find the ICE versions more engaging, special and something I will want to own years from now. I'm sure the 718 EV will be amazing, but in a few years it will be just as obsolete as my iPhone from 5 years ago. There is nothing special about my old Tesla or my old iPhone. But a Porsche 911 Carrera T or a 987 Cayman R, etc. are cars that are still desirable and special in their own way, despite being slower and having older technology.
For me, after driving a Tesla for many years, I would absolutely take the GTS or any flavor of the ICE 718 over the EV version. Acceleration is slower, but everything else that brings driving enjoyment is on a different level. I find the ICE versions more engaging, special and something I will want to own years from now. I'm sure the 718 EV will be amazing, but in a few years it will be just as obsolete as my iPhone from 5 years ago. There is nothing special about my old Tesla or my old iPhone. But a Porsche 911 Carrera T or a 987 Cayman R, etc. are cars that are still desirable and special in their own way, despite being slower and having older technology.
believe me, I learned my lesson the hard way when I sold my NA1 NSX for the newer, nicer 981Cayman S, that would kill the original NSX in every category performance wise..... I regret that decision, but I was on my third NSX and just wanted someting different and new.....but man it was a huge mistake
as far as EV vs ICE, there are pros and cons with both of them, but I'm lucky enough to have multiple vehicles so it's not one or the other for me and enjoy all of them in their own way
btw, I think we are about 25 years too late with the EV push to curb climate change, but I guess it is better late than never.
Last edited by SoCal-NSX; 08-09-2023 at 06:24 PM.
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Porsched (08-09-2023)
08-09-2023, 06:31 PM
#303
Someone would consider that, a point for ICE frankly
Last edited by GT Omologata; 08-09-2023 at 06:32 PM.
08-09-2023, 06:36 PM
#304
read the list again...the 4.0 GTS is even slower around the track than the 981 GTS and the 718 Cayman S
62. Tesla Model 3 Performance The Stig 1:21.50
65. Porsche 718 Cayman S The Stig 1:21.60
68. Porsche Cayman GTS (981) The Stig 1:21.60
96. Porsche 718 Cayman GTS 4.0 The Stig 1:23.50
Last edited by SoCal-NSX; 08-09-2023 at 06:43 PM.
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GT Omologata (08-10-2023)
08-10-2023, 07:59 AM
#305
96. Porsche 718 Cayman GTS 4.0 The Stig 1:23.50
Sure it was a manual (4.0 came in manual only for the first year)...I can personally vouch 718 GTS4.0 is much faster than 718 S
Last edited by GT Omologata; 08-10-2023 at 08:03 AM.
08-10-2023, 10:38 AM
#306
Burning Brakes
08-13-2023, 12:44 PM
#307
Burning Brakes
Another Story of why North America is not quite ready for cross State/Country EV use. Maybe someday....., yet not today....
Man forced to ditch Ford EV truck during family road trip to Chicago - Says Ford Lightning: ‘biggest scam of modern times’
Interesting read.......
From the article;
"Fast charging stations – which only charge EV’s up to 90% – cost more than gas for the same mileage. On the family’s first stop in Fargo, North Dakota, it took two hours and $56 to charge his vehicle from 10% to 90%. The charge was good for another 215 miles."
Man forced to ditch Ford EV truck during family road trip to Chicago - Says Ford Lightning: ‘biggest scam of modern times’
Interesting read.......
From the article;
"Fast charging stations – which only charge EV’s up to 90% – cost more than gas for the same mileage. On the family’s first stop in Fargo, North Dakota, it took two hours and $56 to charge his vehicle from 10% to 90%. The charge was good for another 215 miles."
Last edited by 981KMAN; 08-13-2023 at 12:55 PM.
08-13-2023, 06:17 PM
#308
Rennlist Member
Another Story of why North America is not quite ready for cross State/Country EV use. Maybe someday....., yet not today....
Man forced to ditch Ford EV truck during family road trip to Chicago - Says Ford Lightning: ‘biggest scam of modern times’
Interesting read.......
From the article;
"Fast charging stations – which only charge EV’s up to 90% – cost more than gas for the same mileage. On the family’s first stop in Fargo, North Dakota, it took two hours and $56 to charge his vehicle from 10% to 90%. The charge was good for another 215 miles."
Man forced to ditch Ford EV truck during family road trip to Chicago - Says Ford Lightning: ‘biggest scam of modern times’
Interesting read.......
From the article;
"Fast charging stations – which only charge EV’s up to 90% – cost more than gas for the same mileage. On the family’s first stop in Fargo, North Dakota, it took two hours and $56 to charge his vehicle from 10% to 90%. The charge was good for another 215 miles."
EVs have their place. They do save on emissions (though it takes 2-3 years of driving a new EV to break even). They are fast, quick, and fun in a different way from ICE sports cars.
EVs make sense for daily commuting/daily drivers, and for postal and delivery trucks operating in a defined area.
EVs are generally fast,reliable, cheap home charging, good tech for daily driving.
EVs do not make sense for long road trips, towing any further than around town, traveling in the woods/ camping, or for semi truck drivers pulling heavy loads for long distances.
EVs also make less sense at the track as you can only do 1-2 runs before it goes into limp mode or power is just vastly reduced. This also happens to Taycans, despite superior engineering.
I daily drive a Tesla Model 3 Performance (M3P), but we also own a Jeep wrangler for loads, towing something, and backroads trips to remote wilderness areas. I also have a 991.2 GT3 which is used for the track, canyon carving, and long road trips. All three cars are great in different ways and are best at different things. I’d hate to only have only one of them.
Even though my daily is a M3P, I really hope the governments of the world will wake up and realize that
1-a 2035 limit for banning all ICE cars is totally unrealistic and
2- no one should be forced to buy an EV. Incentives sure, but forcing everyone to only buy electric cars is way too dogmatic for this libertarian.
Last edited by Drifting; 08-13-2023 at 06:19 PM.
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FloraFauna (08-28-2023)
08-13-2023, 06:33 PM
#309
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yep. I wouldn’t drive any EV cross country right now unless it was a Tesla. But even with Tesla, charging your car 5x a day (if driving all day) gets old fast.
EVs have their place. They do save on emissions (though it takes 2-3 years of driving a new EV to break even). They are fast, quick, and fun in a different way from ICE sports cars.
EVs make sense for daily commuting/daily drivers, and for postal and delivery trucks operating in a defined area.
EVs are generally fast,reliable, cheap home charging, good tech for daily driving.
EVs do not make sense for long road trips, towing any further than around town, traveling in the woods/ camping, or for semi truck drivers pulling heavy loads for long distances.
EVs also make less sense at the track as you can only do 1-2 runs before it goes into limp mode or power is just vastly reduced. This also happens to Taycans, despite superior engineering.
I daily drive a Tesla Model 3 Performance (M3P), but we also own a Jeep wrangler for loads, towing something, and backroads trips to remote wilderness areas. I also have a 991.2 GT3 which is used for the track, canyon carving, and long road trips. All three cars are great in different ways and are best at different things. I’d hate to only have only one of them.
Even though my daily is a M3P, I really hope the governments of the world will wake up and realize that
1-a 2035 limit for banning all ICE cars is totally unrealistic and
2- no one should be forced to buy an EV. Incentives sure, but forcing everyone to only buy electric cars is way too dogmatic for this libertarian.
EVs have their place. They do save on emissions (though it takes 2-3 years of driving a new EV to break even). They are fast, quick, and fun in a different way from ICE sports cars.
EVs make sense for daily commuting/daily drivers, and for postal and delivery trucks operating in a defined area.
EVs are generally fast,reliable, cheap home charging, good tech for daily driving.
EVs do not make sense for long road trips, towing any further than around town, traveling in the woods/ camping, or for semi truck drivers pulling heavy loads for long distances.
EVs also make less sense at the track as you can only do 1-2 runs before it goes into limp mode or power is just vastly reduced. This also happens to Taycans, despite superior engineering.
I daily drive a Tesla Model 3 Performance (M3P), but we also own a Jeep wrangler for loads, towing something, and backroads trips to remote wilderness areas. I also have a 991.2 GT3 which is used for the track, canyon carving, and long road trips. All three cars are great in different ways and are best at different things. I’d hate to only have only one of them.
Even though my daily is a M3P, I really hope the governments of the world will wake up and realize that
1-a 2035 limit for banning all ICE cars is totally unrealistic and
2- no one should be forced to buy an EV. Incentives sure, but forcing everyone to only buy electric cars is way too dogmatic for this libertarian.
Towing of heavy and/or unaerodynamic loads would still be a bit inconvenient, though again EV batteries are improving, and well engineered EV pickup trucks are not so terrible in range. See this test of a Rivian as an example of a decently engineered truck: https://insideevs.com/news/593575/rivian-towing-range/
Keep in mind that ICE pickups also lose a lot of range and need frequent refuelling when towing heavy or unaerodynamic loads. Good (i.e. non-Ford) current EVs pickup trucks can go 200+ km pulling fairly heavy trailers, and I expect that to improve to 300+ km by 2035. Couple that with 15 or 20 minute fast charging (we're already getting close, and I expect to be there by 2035), and that's not too bad.
Last edited by wizee; 08-13-2023 at 06:34 PM.
08-13-2023, 06:43 PM
#310
Rennlist Member
believe me, I learned my lesson the hard way when I sold my NA1 NSX for the newer, nicer 981Cayman S, that would kill the original NSX in every category performance wise..... I regret that decision, but I was on my third NSX and just wanted someting different and new.....but man it was a huge mistake
as far as EV vs ICE, there are pros and cons with both of them, but I'm lucky enough to have multiple vehicles so it's not one or the other for me and enjoy all of them in their own way
as far as EV vs ICE, there are pros and cons with both of them, but I'm lucky enough to have multiple vehicles so it's not one or the other for me and enjoy all of them in their own way
As a side note I did an extensive test drive of a Taycan Turbo on the same day that I picked up my M3P after they installed my coilovers, and I found that I distinctly preferred driving the M3P vs the Taycan. The Taycan suspension is clearly better than the M3P even with the coilovers but the Taycan weighs 1110lbs more than my M3P and the best suspension in the world can’t hide that much weight, which I could feel with every change of direction. And new (two gear) Taycan was clunky shifting gears, and relative small in the cabin and the trunk, despite its large overall dimensions.
I dropped by this thread because I’m thinking of getting an EV cayman to replace my M3P in a few years. If Porsche can truly reach the 3650lbs target weight, but with a porsche level suspension, the electric Cayman could be a great car.
I expect the 3650 lbs Cayman would be the base model with only one motor. Will be interesting to see the final weight of the top Cayman “Turbo” model with a dual motors and likely a larger battery.
Last edited by Drifting; 08-13-2023 at 06:44 PM.
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FloraFauna (08-28-2023)
08-13-2023, 07:24 PM
#311
Rennlist Member
How far would you be driving to need to charge a Tesla 5 times? Two people driving for 16+ hours non-stop? You would need to make multiple fuel and food and washroom break stops on such a trip, and in principle, as infrastructure improves, there would be enough fast chargers to refill at every food stop (we're already getting close in more densely populated regions). At least for myself, I need to stop for food and rest after 4 hours of driving, and my ICE cars need refuelling every 5-7 hours of highway driving. Over the next decade, charging speeds and EV range should improve too. Thus, I think it's feasible for most use cases of personal cars (including road trips) to be easy and comfortable by 2035.
Towing of heavy and/or unaerodynamic loads would still be a bit inconvenient, though again EV batteries are improving, and well engineered EV pickup trucks are not so terrible in range. See this test of a Rivian as an example of a decently engineered truck: https://insideevs.com/news/593575/rivian-towing-range/
Keep in mind that ICE pickups also lose a lot of range and need frequent refuelling when towing heavy or unaerodynamic loads. Good (i.e. non-Ford) current EVs pickup trucks can go 200+ km pulling fairly heavy trailers, and I expect that to improve to 300+ km by 2035. Couple that with 15 or 20 minute fast charging (we're already getting close, and I expect to be there by 2035), and that's not too bad.
Towing of heavy and/or unaerodynamic loads would still be a bit inconvenient, though again EV batteries are improving, and well engineered EV pickup trucks are not so terrible in range. See this test of a Rivian as an example of a decently engineered truck: https://insideevs.com/news/593575/rivian-towing-range/
Keep in mind that ICE pickups also lose a lot of range and need frequent refuelling when towing heavy or unaerodynamic loads. Good (i.e. non-Ford) current EVs pickup trucks can go 200+ km pulling fairly heavy trailers, and I expect that to improve to 300+ km by 2035. Couple that with 15 or 20 minute fast charging (we're already getting close, and I expect to be there by 2035), and that's not too bad.
that rivian in the link got 140 miles of range in the summer. There are many many cool places in the Rockies that not near the freeway/chargers are are more than 140 miles round trip. And that towing range is likely only 100miles in the winter.
Yes, you can buy an insanely heavy 7000lb! Rivian R1T just to tow something 100 miles in the winter, but again, not applicable to 98% of EVs.
so your 4 hour recharge estimate is widely inaccurate, particularly for a future electric 718 which is the point of this thread.
The electric cayman will not have more range than a Tesla model 3.
Mark my words, you will not be able to drive a normal (not enormous) EV for 4hrs, particularly in the winter anytime soon, in an EV that cost less than six figures, so is accessible to the general population (not just the top 5%).
The only current EV capable of driving 4 hrs non stop on a freeway is the lucid air touring which weighs 5300lbs and average cost is $140,000, and that is if chargers work which is still a very iffy proposition for any non Tesla EV.
Last edited by Drifting; 08-14-2023 at 12:26 AM.
08-13-2023, 08:33 PM
#312
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I drove across 4 large western states 3 years ago in my Tesla model 3 performance. Trip was during the summer, on the freeway, traveling 7-10 miles over the limit, and we didn’t tow anything but we had to stop every two hours to charge. Drove 10hrs a day so yes 5 stops per day. Always found a supercharger, but some were slower than others and some a bit more off the freeway than others, so our charging stops averaged 30 minutes. So charging adding 2.5 full hours to what were already two long days. I decided right then never to take another long trip in an EV this decade.
that rivian got 140 miles of range… in the summer. There are many many cool places in the Rockies that not near the freeway/chargers are are more than 140 miles round trip. And that towing range is likely only 100miles in the winter.
so your 4 hour recharge estimate is widely inaccurate, particularly for a future electric 718 which is the point of this thread.
The electric cayman will not have more range than a Tesla model 3.
Yes, you can buy an insanely heavy 7000lb! Rivian R1T just to tow something 100 miles in the winter, but again, not applicable to 98% of EVs.
Mark my words, you will not be able to drive a normal EV for 4hrs, particularly in the winter anytime soon, in EVs that cost less than six figures, so are accessible to the general population (not just the top 5%).
The only current EV capable of driving 4 hrs non stop on a freeway is the lucid air touring which weighs 5300lbs and average cost is $140,000, and that is if chargers work which is still a very iffy proposition for any non Tesla EV.
that rivian got 140 miles of range… in the summer. There are many many cool places in the Rockies that not near the freeway/chargers are are more than 140 miles round trip. And that towing range is likely only 100miles in the winter.
so your 4 hour recharge estimate is widely inaccurate, particularly for a future electric 718 which is the point of this thread.
The electric cayman will not have more range than a Tesla model 3.
Yes, you can buy an insanely heavy 7000lb! Rivian R1T just to tow something 100 miles in the winter, but again, not applicable to 98% of EVs.
Mark my words, you will not be able to drive a normal EV for 4hrs, particularly in the winter anytime soon, in EVs that cost less than six figures, so are accessible to the general population (not just the top 5%).
The only current EV capable of driving 4 hrs non stop on a freeway is the lucid air touring which weighs 5300lbs and average cost is $140,000, and that is if chargers work which is still a very iffy proposition for any non Tesla EV.
Last edited by wizee; 08-13-2023 at 08:40 PM.
08-17-2023, 02:00 PM
#313
Burning Brakes
Questions for those of you with a 718, now or before, and also a Tesla Model 3. What were your first thoughts driving the M3 with just a tablet to handle all of your controls vs analog gauges, switches and stalks?
For myself, I have NOT driven ANY Tesla so will not compare Tesla vs Porsche but I have sat in a Model 3 and found it cold an uninviting with no gauges and only a tablet. Just curious about your experiences and thoughts between the 718 and Model 3.
For myself, I have NOT driven ANY Tesla so will not compare Tesla vs Porsche but I have sat in a Model 3 and found it cold an uninviting with no gauges and only a tablet. Just curious about your experiences and thoughts between the 718 and Model 3.
08-17-2023, 02:21 PM
#314
Instructor
Questions for those of you with a 718, now or before, and also a Tesla Model 3. What were your first thoughts driving the M3 with just a tablet to handle all of your controls vs analog gauges, switches and stalks?
For myself, I have NOT driven ANY Tesla so will not compare Tesla vs Porsche but I have sat in a Model 3 and found it cold an uninviting with no gauges and only a tablet. Just curious about your experiences and thoughts between the 718 and Model 3.
For myself, I have NOT driven ANY Tesla so will not compare Tesla vs Porsche but I have sat in a Model 3 and found it cold an uninviting with no gauges and only a tablet. Just curious about your experiences and thoughts between the 718 and Model 3.
08-17-2023, 04:33 PM
#315
Questions for those of you with a 718, now or before, and also a Tesla Model 3. What were your first thoughts driving the M3 with just a tablet to handle all of your controls vs analog gauges, switches and stalks?
For myself, I have NOT driven ANY Tesla so will not compare Tesla vs Porsche but I have sat in a Model 3 and found it cold an uninviting with no gauges and only a tablet. Just curious about your experiences and thoughts between the 718 and Model 3.
For myself, I have NOT driven ANY Tesla so will not compare Tesla vs Porsche but I have sat in a Model 3 and found it cold an uninviting with no gauges and only a tablet. Just curious about your experiences and thoughts between the 718 and Model 3.
Obviusly the Porsche interior is much nicer, but the Tesla interior is fine....I have yet to get bored of the instant acceleration and embarrassing people who try to test me now and then
so far it has been by far the best daily driver I have ever owned
Last edited by SoCal-NSX; 08-17-2023 at 04:34 PM.
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FloraFauna (08-28-2023)