Any Rennlisters from New Zealand?
05-29-2014, 12:15 AM
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Regarding that Olsen link... his write up received significantly more criticism on Rennlist: https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...ll-shines.html
And a follow-up thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...s-at-wsir.html
I'd love that '74 Targa for a weekend/occasional daily. Perfect colour.
And a follow-up thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...s-at-wsir.html
I'd love that '74 Targa for a weekend/occasional daily. Perfect colour.
05-29-2014, 03:18 AM
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Like Matt says comparing those lap times is controversial but Ive been a Jack Olsen fan for many years and posted a picture of his car and garage and that article last year on here. His car is exactly how I see my car evolving.
Ordered GT 4 plate clutch pack for my LSD today. Supposed to be as indestructible as they come. I also went for the 40/60 GT billet ramps with adjustable ramp angles (you can see this in the picture below).
Turns out my LSD was a brand new factory M220 option 22/40 2 plate unit. I wasnt feeling the LSD working on SITT like I did on NITT. Looks like the preload was out and needed a shim. Internals looked fine but these are notoriously weak.
The factory housing is suitable for the Guards Transmission Internals.
Theres a long distance lesson here. Ordered the 40/65 Motorsport LSD in April 2011 after asking for a quote with the correct part number 6 months before. LSD arrived but was supplied with different last 2 digits. They all look the same from the outside. Of course I wasnt there to look at it and check it so it went in the car. I always thought i had a proper LSD. Even wrote it up on my brochure/book on the car. Could never work out why I couldnt feel it like I could the one in my 993RS and 996 GT3 (both had been freshly rebuilt).
So $1700 USD more of unexpected expenditure. Doing the research on this over the last 72 hours has been interesting and Ive learnt more than I needed to know about LSDs. What I do know is that the GT 4 clutch packs with the 40/60 ramp when shimmied up will be noticeable on the track. Even the stocker 22/40 helps me through corners quicker than an open diff. When its working! Last time I felt it was at Manfield. It works a treat on those tight NZ tracks. I was constantly beating my own times right to the end of the last session on NITT. Then on SITT I wondered where the stability had gone under brakes. It was still working but wasnt doing 50% of its job (and with the 22/40 ramps that job wasnt very aggressive in any case).
Anyway. Another lesson taken by me for you all! Im broke now so I hope there arent any more lessons to learn in the nest few weeks or I might just give it all up and rent a track car when I come to NZ!!
Next time skip the Porsche LSDs all together go straight for a Chrome Molli cased GT GT2 LSD. They make them now for Caymans for BGB and apparently those using them say they transform that car and are good for 2 seconds at Willows...Pete?
P.S. Sorry Matt. I cant afford no $500 fancy gauges now. If your selling your old longacre 0-60psi analogue and its in good nick Im interested...
Ordered GT 4 plate clutch pack for my LSD today. Supposed to be as indestructible as they come. I also went for the 40/60 GT billet ramps with adjustable ramp angles (you can see this in the picture below).
Turns out my LSD was a brand new factory M220 option 22/40 2 plate unit. I wasnt feeling the LSD working on SITT like I did on NITT. Looks like the preload was out and needed a shim. Internals looked fine but these are notoriously weak.
The factory housing is suitable for the Guards Transmission Internals.
Theres a long distance lesson here. Ordered the 40/65 Motorsport LSD in April 2011 after asking for a quote with the correct part number 6 months before. LSD arrived but was supplied with different last 2 digits. They all look the same from the outside. Of course I wasnt there to look at it and check it so it went in the car. I always thought i had a proper LSD. Even wrote it up on my brochure/book on the car. Could never work out why I couldnt feel it like I could the one in my 993RS and 996 GT3 (both had been freshly rebuilt).
So $1700 USD more of unexpected expenditure. Doing the research on this over the last 72 hours has been interesting and Ive learnt more than I needed to know about LSDs. What I do know is that the GT 4 clutch packs with the 40/60 ramp when shimmied up will be noticeable on the track. Even the stocker 22/40 helps me through corners quicker than an open diff. When its working! Last time I felt it was at Manfield. It works a treat on those tight NZ tracks. I was constantly beating my own times right to the end of the last session on NITT. Then on SITT I wondered where the stability had gone under brakes. It was still working but wasnt doing 50% of its job (and with the 22/40 ramps that job wasnt very aggressive in any case).
Anyway. Another lesson taken by me for you all! Im broke now so I hope there arent any more lessons to learn in the nest few weeks or I might just give it all up and rent a track car when I come to NZ!!
Next time skip the Porsche LSDs all together go straight for a Chrome Molli cased GT GT2 LSD. They make them now for Caymans for BGB and apparently those using them say they transform that car and are good for 2 seconds at Willows...Pete?
P.S. Sorry Matt. I cant afford no $500 fancy gauges now. If your selling your old longacre 0-60psi analogue and its in good nick Im interested...
05-29-2014, 03:22 AM
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Looks like a styling disaster IMO. Close but no fruit. 1987 RUF Yellowbird front bumper (yellowbird rocks and fights 964Rs as collection car), 964/993 mirrors, 993 17?" wheels, Techart copy rear spoiler all no doubt on a SC platform. Paint not matching in at least three areas.
Could have been a goodie....MISS!
Could have been a goodie....MISS!
05-29-2014, 03:32 AM
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I think Pete's first in line for my old gauge. If he doesn't want it, you're welcome to it.
What a bugger about the LSD! I'm sure you'll be happy with Guard stuff, they have an excellent reputation. Other than the bits from the Motorsport division that go in to the Cup cars (which is what I've got in the GT3), Porsche LSDs are made of chocolate and only exist as a marketing feature point. The ones in the post-996 GT3s don't even come with worthwhile ramp angles! Pretty sad really, but I guess they've gone the way of the dodo in road cars now that they're using an e-diff in the 991.
On that note, seeing this quote makes me happy and it's hard to imagine seeing this sort of honesty/humility from Porsche:
What a bugger about the LSD! I'm sure you'll be happy with Guard stuff, they have an excellent reputation. Other than the bits from the Motorsport division that go in to the Cup cars (which is what I've got in the GT3), Porsche LSDs are made of chocolate and only exist as a marketing feature point. The ones in the post-996 GT3s don't even come with worthwhile ramp angles! Pretty sad really, but I guess they've gone the way of the dodo in road cars now that they're using an e-diff in the 991.
On that note, seeing this quote makes me happy and it's hard to imagine seeing this sort of honesty/humility from Porsche:
“We ran some tests” explained Frolich. “The [efficiency] difference between an automatic with six speeds and eight speeds is seven or eight per cent, which is a good result. But the benefit for nine speeds [instead of eight] is almost zero per cent. Plus, it adds weight, complexity and cost, and with turbocharged engines you have a good spread of torque, so [drivers] do not want to have the gearbox constantly changing its mind.”
Quizzed over the policy to equip BMW’s M Division cars with a seven-speed dual-clutch gearbox (known as M-DCT), Frolich said: “Seven gears is not optimum, it is a compromise. As in a manual gearbox, in a twin-clutch you must arrange all the gears in a line, so for weight and packaging reasons we are limited to seven speeds. But our new turbo M cars have so much torque this is no problem. DCT remains right for M cars because we can’t make a torque-convertor that would be durable up to 8000rpm.”
Frolich also confirmed that for the foreseeable future, the manual transmission is safe at BMW, both in M Division cars and regular non-performance models. “Of course, with a manual you are slower, but it is more emotional; it now says ‘I am a serious driver, I am a connoisseur’. So, we will continue [to offer a manual] even if only ten per cent of customers want it. That is why we offer a manual M5 sedan in North America. It is stupid – the development costs are huge – but we will keep doing it as long as the customer wants it.”
Quizzed over the policy to equip BMW’s M Division cars with a seven-speed dual-clutch gearbox (known as M-DCT), Frolich said: “Seven gears is not optimum, it is a compromise. As in a manual gearbox, in a twin-clutch you must arrange all the gears in a line, so for weight and packaging reasons we are limited to seven speeds. But our new turbo M cars have so much torque this is no problem. DCT remains right for M cars because we can’t make a torque-convertor that would be durable up to 8000rpm.”
Frolich also confirmed that for the foreseeable future, the manual transmission is safe at BMW, both in M Division cars and regular non-performance models. “Of course, with a manual you are slower, but it is more emotional; it now says ‘I am a serious driver, I am a connoisseur’. So, we will continue [to offer a manual] even if only ten per cent of customers want it. That is why we offer a manual M5 sedan in North America. It is stupid – the development costs are huge – but we will keep doing it as long as the customer wants it.”
05-29-2014, 03:33 AM
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Looks like a styling disaster IMO. Close but no fruit. 1987 RUF Yellowbird front bumper (yellowbird rocks and fights 964Rs as collection car), 964/993 mirrors, 993 17?" wheels, Techart copy rear spoiler all no doubt on a SC platform. Paint not matching in at least three areas. Could have been a goodie....MISS!
05-29-2014, 03:38 AM
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That reminds me, ran across an interesting origin story about Guard the other evening. Turns out it all started because someone moved to New Zealand with a Karmann Ghia to surf, and ended up being pointed towards Australia to have some custom gear sets manufactured. More: http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/g...ml#post2859844
05-29-2014, 04:00 AM
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btw Matt - all set for Sunday at 10am at Terry's. Will give you the address on Sat. Can I grab a lift on Sat? Steve/Dan are bringing the car north - but may have to rendezvous at HD on the way to load up with tyres.
05-29-2014, 04:04 AM
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No problem with a lift on Saturday, PM/text me your address and a time and I'll see you then.
05-29-2014, 04:05 AM
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Matt. That is an interesting story about Guard. Did you know their fully chromy molly casing is made in Australia!
The Motorsport stuff is definitely better than the stock stuff. Its what I ordered! It doesnt last forever and GT seems to be where people go afterwards for a more robust replacement vane set. Its what i was going to do. Use the Motorsport housing when the plates were eventually shot and get GT parts to replace. Only because I couldn't justify the GT built LSD with case in the first place (back then 2900 USD) but obviously could have gone that way with what Ive just spent all up. As a point to note the GT 40/60-65 4 plate clutch pack is generally agreed to be good for 1.5-3 full race seasons depending on lash, preload, oil changes etc. I gather a US race season is around 12 weekends, 8 sessions a weekend. The factory Motorsport diifs were good for one season max. Thats for a 993 Cup but may differ for your 996 GT3. On the street both sets will last much longer with 45,000km claimed for the factory unit and 2-3x for the Guards. Either way these mechanical LSDs are a consumer-able item and again add another cost element to running your car regularly and hard at the track. I know both the LSDs in my 993RS and GT3 were only showing around 8nm of lock torque after 60,000 km for the RS and 55000 for the GT3 and both needed to be rebuilt.
Those without a lowish power car and a decent functioning LSD will definitely be 1s+ quicker a lap at HD. However you have to ask yourself if its worth the investment. If you have an open LSD Id say stick with it unless you want to really press on.
The Motorsport stuff is definitely better than the stock stuff. Its what I ordered! It doesnt last forever and GT seems to be where people go afterwards for a more robust replacement vane set. Its what i was going to do. Use the Motorsport housing when the plates were eventually shot and get GT parts to replace. Only because I couldn't justify the GT built LSD with case in the first place (back then 2900 USD) but obviously could have gone that way with what Ive just spent all up. As a point to note the GT 40/60-65 4 plate clutch pack is generally agreed to be good for 1.5-3 full race seasons depending on lash, preload, oil changes etc. I gather a US race season is around 12 weekends, 8 sessions a weekend. The factory Motorsport diifs were good for one season max. Thats for a 993 Cup but may differ for your 996 GT3. On the street both sets will last much longer with 45,000km claimed for the factory unit and 2-3x for the Guards. Either way these mechanical LSDs are a consumer-able item and again add another cost element to running your car regularly and hard at the track. I know both the LSDs in my 993RS and GT3 were only showing around 8nm of lock torque after 60,000 km for the RS and 55000 for the GT3 and both needed to be rebuilt.
Those without a lowish power car and a decent functioning LSD will definitely be 1s+ quicker a lap at HD. However you have to ask yourself if its worth the investment. If you have an open LSD Id say stick with it unless you want to really press on.
05-29-2014, 04:10 AM
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What's the go for the 7th? How many support crew are required and what do they do?
05-29-2014, 04:12 AM
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Matt. No worries re the gauge. Ill pick one up in the US.
Interesting to know how durable the e diffs are. I think Porsche diffs are just crap in general. My e39 M5 had 120k km on it and its diff worked like new. Why cant Porsche design something that doesnt brake. Its not because of teh power put through them!
Heres an interesting perspective on future 991 GT3 values thats posted by someone respectable on RL. The bit about the value of the 991 GT3 is not really the point (nor is it anything but optimistic speculation) but the bit about 3-4 cylinder turbo engines and emissions is. The 2021 protocol makes any hi po NA engine basically a mill stone around teh neck of a volume producer. I think you will only see such engines in low volume specialist (and expensive) cars within 10 years. Basically anything serious with a NA engine (all GT3s etc) will be of value. Ive been thinking about the need M3 but I just cant get my head around the turbo bit. It does take care of the need for ratios as your clip states but the engine for me is more sacred than even the gearbox.
This is something I think about often. I cannot imagine the year being 2025 and a 2015 911 GT3 going for less than $200k at your local dealership. It's going to be a classic, manufactured during 'the good old days' of lenient emissions standards.
If prices don't go up simply due to quantitative easing driving up prices, they will purely because auto manufacturers are currently forecasting 3-cylinder engines in luxury cars and sports cars. Who will offer such an incredible car like a 9,000 RPM NA 3,150 LB coupe in a decade?
I could be wrong but we're entering an era of prohibition for cars like the current GT3 and just like fine booze prices skyrocketed during alcohol prohibition, I think the GT3 price outlook is guaranteed bullish.
God knows what 993's and 964's will be selling for at that point!
***************
Interesting to know how durable the e diffs are. I think Porsche diffs are just crap in general. My e39 M5 had 120k km on it and its diff worked like new. Why cant Porsche design something that doesnt brake. Its not because of teh power put through them!
Heres an interesting perspective on future 991 GT3 values thats posted by someone respectable on RL. The bit about the value of the 991 GT3 is not really the point (nor is it anything but optimistic speculation) but the bit about 3-4 cylinder turbo engines and emissions is. The 2021 protocol makes any hi po NA engine basically a mill stone around teh neck of a volume producer. I think you will only see such engines in low volume specialist (and expensive) cars within 10 years. Basically anything serious with a NA engine (all GT3s etc) will be of value. Ive been thinking about the need M3 but I just cant get my head around the turbo bit. It does take care of the need for ratios as your clip states but the engine for me is more sacred than even the gearbox.
This is something I think about often. I cannot imagine the year being 2025 and a 2015 911 GT3 going for less than $200k at your local dealership. It's going to be a classic, manufactured during 'the good old days' of lenient emissions standards.
If prices don't go up simply due to quantitative easing driving up prices, they will purely because auto manufacturers are currently forecasting 3-cylinder engines in luxury cars and sports cars. Who will offer such an incredible car like a 9,000 RPM NA 3,150 LB coupe in a decade?
I could be wrong but we're entering an era of prohibition for cars like the current GT3 and just like fine booze prices skyrocketed during alcohol prohibition, I think the GT3 price outlook is guaranteed bullish.
God knows what 993's and 964's will be selling for at that point!
***************
05-29-2014, 04:18 AM
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05-29-2014, 04:22 AM
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Go figure.
The good news from all that I can see if you can get yourself into any recent generation of a decent speced 911 and probably if you hold onto it be guaranteed of string medium/long term residuals.
05-29-2014, 04:26 AM
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Unless you live in NZ where the 964 prices will continue to wallow (or drop even as evidenced by some recent offerings) to the point where they will be exported to markets that are prepared to pay for them. Go figure. The good news from all that I can see if you can get yourself into any recent generation of a decent speced 911 and probably if you hold onto it be guaranteed of string medium/long term residuals.
Not sure if the GPW will last until I get to see it but I could well have another one to the collection soon. Need to build a carport.