Any Rennlisters from New Zealand?
05-29-2014, 05:59 PM
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Yes John. Thats as I understood it. However how much would it realistically cost to get the bonnet and door sorted when you eventually have the car repainted? Im not sure you will get a perfect colour match from the swapped parts in any case so some cosmetic paint may be needed down the line. I may be wrong but it seems like alot of time effort and potential risk to save a few thousand dollars. It may however provide unmeasurable intrinsic reward which I am not considering in my assessment.
05-29-2014, 06:15 PM
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Yes John. Thats as I understood it. However how much would it realistically cost to get the bonnet and door sorted when you eventually have the car repainted? Im not sure you will get a perfect colour match from the swapped parts in any case so some cosmetic paint may be needed down the line. I may be wrong but it seems like alot of time effort and potential risk to save a few thousand dollars. It may however provide unmeasurable intrinsic reward which I am not considering in my assessment.
Add it all up and we have kaching x 3 that may be saved.
Anyway this is all hypothetical right now. The car may be a pig, sold before I get there or Donna may nobble the idea. We already have 4 cars and room for 6 do it's beginning to look like Eastridge parking area.
05-29-2014, 06:30 PM
Walt. this from another forum may be of interest to yourself and chris
I just wanted to do a quick post on my impression of the recently installed Guard GT Club 40/60 LSD in my car. My decision to install the LSD in my car was the fact that I had trouble putting power down coming out of corners at my local track (HPR). I was running my car with PSM switched OFF (with the dash switch) in AWD form with the stock open diff on Nitto NT01 235/315 Rcompound tires and putting down about 550-600hp. My alignment specs are -2.2 camber front, -2.1 camber rear. Toe is 1mm total front and 1.5mm total rear. Spring rates are 600F/800R. Once I started running the car aggressively in the upper run groups I started having issues with spinning the inside rear tire when powering out of turns. It didn't matter if I was AWD, the car just does NOT have the ability to transfer much meaningful power / torque to the front via the viscous coupler. There are a number of guys here that will claim that an LSD is a waste of money for these cars in AWD due to our "abundance" of traction but my experience shows other wise.
When I initially had the LSD installed I decided to retain the AWD system to gauge what difference the LSD would make. The only other change I made was to have my shop totally disconnect the PSM system on the car thus taking it completely out of the equation. I still have ABS so the set up is basically like a GT2. Right off the bat, I could tell a difference in the car in the way it powered out of the turns. The car now hooks up beautifully and just rockets out of corners. It feels more stable under hard acceleration than before, it tracks "straighter", if you will. One of the things that surprised me was the fact that the "push" of the car mid corner was reduced as the car now was much more eager to have the tail of the car step out, the rate of which could easily be modulated with the throttle. It is now actually very easy to drift the car if you just wanted to play a bit. This was impossible before with the open diff.
The one HUGE difference of the LSD however is one that I did not really anticipate prior to the install. What I am talking about is how the car now behaves under hard braking and how much easier it is to trail brake the car with precision. Prior to the LSD install, whenever I would enter the braking zone and brake HARD, I could feel a bit of nervousness to the car that is hard to describe. Under hard braking the car felt like the rear end would get very light and lightly wag it's tail from side to side, enough that small corrections would need to be made. Also, it was very easy to have the tail of the car step out during trail braking and I would have to be real careful to keep the back end in check. After the LSD install, all this "nervousness" disappeared. The car is now dead solid under hard braking and I brake hard, generally just to the threshold of where the ABS would occasionally start to cycle. The car now just squats down and comes in dead straight. I think this is a result of the Guard LSD being set up with abound a 50 lb. preload which ties the two rear wheels together inducing this "stability". In addition, it is now much easier to trail brake later into the turn without the back of the car feeling like it wants to come around. All in all, it feels easier to to drive the car harder into the turns now.
I must also mention that the notion that the car will push on corner entry with the install of the LSD is a huge myth, at least not with the LSD set up I have. I detected absolutely zero difference in the corner entry compared to my prior open diff. Maybe this is because I can trail brake later and more aggressively but the car does not push any more than before.
Another item of note is how smooth and progressive the Guard CLUB LSD is especially now that I have done 10 track sessions and changed the gear oil. I fully anticipated more of an ON/OFF type feeling but it is just not there. The lock up both under braking and accel is seamless. Initially in turn 12 at HPR where the car accelerates hard and unloads a bit as it crests the hill I could feel the LSD lock and try to induce a bit of push but this is now completely gone after the break in. On the street the LSD is totally transparent with out any noise except when I am backing up and turning where you can hear a bit of a clicking which I assume is the clutch packs. When moving forward the LSD is dead quiet. I ran 3 sessions at HPR with the new LSD and then did some timed runs and took close to 2 seconds off my normal time while still running fairly conservatively trying to relearn the car. Not bad, I am sold.
The other thing I was considering was going to RWD and after speaking with Chris Cervelli who highly recommended it I decided to take the plunge. I removed all the 70+ lbs. of components from the car, added a touch more rake and had it aligned and corner balanced again. As an aside, removing the components shifted the balance spit from 38.5/61.5% to 37.6/62.4%, so less than one percent. I am very impressed and happy with how it turned out. The car is now RWD with LSD and no PSM but with ABS. Basically what I ran before minus the FWD. The difference is now is VERY VERY subtle and by no means huge. It feels a touch more nimbler and really seems to turn in even better. Any push that may have been there is gone as far as I can tell. I think you have to respect the car a little more and be ready to catch the back end from stepping out with a quick stab of counter steer. With my 550+hp traction is not an issue on R compound 315s anymore than it was in AWD. This really just reaffirms my belief that the FWD system does not have the ability to transfer much meaningful power to the front.
I did a few session at the track in RWD but with traffic did not have a chance to do any timed runs to compare it to AWD. I do believe that the car will be marginally quicker than AWD due to the fact that the car is a touch lighter thus allowing slightly faster cornering speeds and some power is freed up from the reduction in drag. I did gain about 2 mph at the end of the straight at HPR. My seat of the pants dyno tell me 20-30 hp. As I said, the car now does feel a bit quicker and more tossable. I like it and look forward to really relearning the car getting the most out of this setup.
In summary, I am very happy with the results of this set up and see this as a "must" for anyone that seriously wants to track their 996tt. In my opinion, for what it's worth, the addition of a properly set up LSD along with the deletion of PSM is a huge benefit to the AWD system that will give you quantifiable benefits when the car is driven hard. In my book, the LSD benefit is almost greater under braking than accelaration. For a RWD turbo an LSD is a virtual necessity in a track environment or if you want to drive the car hard in the twisties. It is beyond me how anyone could be happy with the performance of one of these cars in RWD mode with an open diff unless they only go in a straight line.
I would like to thank Matt Monson of GUARD for taking the time to answer all my questions as well as showing me around his shop, and taking the time to pick out the right product for my needs. I looked at many options when looking for an LSD and Matt was one of the only guys I spoke with that did not bad mouth his competitors in order to make a sale. And in the end, that sold me. I addition my thanks must go to Chris Cervelli for properly setting up the LSD in my gearbox and to 3zero3 for putting all this together.
I just wanted to do a quick post on my impression of the recently installed Guard GT Club 40/60 LSD in my car. My decision to install the LSD in my car was the fact that I had trouble putting power down coming out of corners at my local track (HPR). I was running my car with PSM switched OFF (with the dash switch) in AWD form with the stock open diff on Nitto NT01 235/315 Rcompound tires and putting down about 550-600hp. My alignment specs are -2.2 camber front, -2.1 camber rear. Toe is 1mm total front and 1.5mm total rear. Spring rates are 600F/800R. Once I started running the car aggressively in the upper run groups I started having issues with spinning the inside rear tire when powering out of turns. It didn't matter if I was AWD, the car just does NOT have the ability to transfer much meaningful power / torque to the front via the viscous coupler. There are a number of guys here that will claim that an LSD is a waste of money for these cars in AWD due to our "abundance" of traction but my experience shows other wise.
When I initially had the LSD installed I decided to retain the AWD system to gauge what difference the LSD would make. The only other change I made was to have my shop totally disconnect the PSM system on the car thus taking it completely out of the equation. I still have ABS so the set up is basically like a GT2. Right off the bat, I could tell a difference in the car in the way it powered out of the turns. The car now hooks up beautifully and just rockets out of corners. It feels more stable under hard acceleration than before, it tracks "straighter", if you will. One of the things that surprised me was the fact that the "push" of the car mid corner was reduced as the car now was much more eager to have the tail of the car step out, the rate of which could easily be modulated with the throttle. It is now actually very easy to drift the car if you just wanted to play a bit. This was impossible before with the open diff.
The one HUGE difference of the LSD however is one that I did not really anticipate prior to the install. What I am talking about is how the car now behaves under hard braking and how much easier it is to trail brake the car with precision. Prior to the LSD install, whenever I would enter the braking zone and brake HARD, I could feel a bit of nervousness to the car that is hard to describe. Under hard braking the car felt like the rear end would get very light and lightly wag it's tail from side to side, enough that small corrections would need to be made. Also, it was very easy to have the tail of the car step out during trail braking and I would have to be real careful to keep the back end in check. After the LSD install, all this "nervousness" disappeared. The car is now dead solid under hard braking and I brake hard, generally just to the threshold of where the ABS would occasionally start to cycle. The car now just squats down and comes in dead straight. I think this is a result of the Guard LSD being set up with abound a 50 lb. preload which ties the two rear wheels together inducing this "stability". In addition, it is now much easier to trail brake later into the turn without the back of the car feeling like it wants to come around. All in all, it feels easier to to drive the car harder into the turns now.
I must also mention that the notion that the car will push on corner entry with the install of the LSD is a huge myth, at least not with the LSD set up I have. I detected absolutely zero difference in the corner entry compared to my prior open diff. Maybe this is because I can trail brake later and more aggressively but the car does not push any more than before.
Another item of note is how smooth and progressive the Guard CLUB LSD is especially now that I have done 10 track sessions and changed the gear oil. I fully anticipated more of an ON/OFF type feeling but it is just not there. The lock up both under braking and accel is seamless. Initially in turn 12 at HPR where the car accelerates hard and unloads a bit as it crests the hill I could feel the LSD lock and try to induce a bit of push but this is now completely gone after the break in. On the street the LSD is totally transparent with out any noise except when I am backing up and turning where you can hear a bit of a clicking which I assume is the clutch packs. When moving forward the LSD is dead quiet. I ran 3 sessions at HPR with the new LSD and then did some timed runs and took close to 2 seconds off my normal time while still running fairly conservatively trying to relearn the car. Not bad, I am sold.
The other thing I was considering was going to RWD and after speaking with Chris Cervelli who highly recommended it I decided to take the plunge. I removed all the 70+ lbs. of components from the car, added a touch more rake and had it aligned and corner balanced again. As an aside, removing the components shifted the balance spit from 38.5/61.5% to 37.6/62.4%, so less than one percent. I am very impressed and happy with how it turned out. The car is now RWD with LSD and no PSM but with ABS. Basically what I ran before minus the FWD. The difference is now is VERY VERY subtle and by no means huge. It feels a touch more nimbler and really seems to turn in even better. Any push that may have been there is gone as far as I can tell. I think you have to respect the car a little more and be ready to catch the back end from stepping out with a quick stab of counter steer. With my 550+hp traction is not an issue on R compound 315s anymore than it was in AWD. This really just reaffirms my belief that the FWD system does not have the ability to transfer much meaningful power to the front.
I did a few session at the track in RWD but with traffic did not have a chance to do any timed runs to compare it to AWD. I do believe that the car will be marginally quicker than AWD due to the fact that the car is a touch lighter thus allowing slightly faster cornering speeds and some power is freed up from the reduction in drag. I did gain about 2 mph at the end of the straight at HPR. My seat of the pants dyno tell me 20-30 hp. As I said, the car now does feel a bit quicker and more tossable. I like it and look forward to really relearning the car getting the most out of this setup.
In summary, I am very happy with the results of this set up and see this as a "must" for anyone that seriously wants to track their 996tt. In my opinion, for what it's worth, the addition of a properly set up LSD along with the deletion of PSM is a huge benefit to the AWD system that will give you quantifiable benefits when the car is driven hard. In my book, the LSD benefit is almost greater under braking than accelaration. For a RWD turbo an LSD is a virtual necessity in a track environment or if you want to drive the car hard in the twisties. It is beyond me how anyone could be happy with the performance of one of these cars in RWD mode with an open diff unless they only go in a straight line.
I would like to thank Matt Monson of GUARD for taking the time to answer all my questions as well as showing me around his shop, and taking the time to pick out the right product for my needs. I looked at many options when looking for an LSD and Matt was one of the only guys I spoke with that did not bad mouth his competitors in order to make a sale. And in the end, that sold me. I addition my thanks must go to Chris Cervelli for properly setting up the LSD in my gearbox and to 3zero3 for putting all this together.
Nicely found Mark and thanks for posting - very relevant to our cars. HPR is a 2min track but quite a bit less twisty than HD so the 2 sec savings there suggests maybe 1.5 sec to be had at HD, and a less sweaty drive.
An LSD has been on the wish list for a while but didn't realise they could make that big a difference. Like him, I am also spinning up the inside rear several times each lap so between sorting that and better braking I guess it makes sense. Beyond dosh, my main concern is about push on the street. Obviously no problem at track speeds and braking levels though. I know that their diffs are almost twice as aggressive, but watching the Macau Asian Carrera Cup on the box, they had to slow to something that almost looked like walking pace to get around the hairpin in painfully big arcs (though I guess wide fronts with limited steering lock contributes there too).
Unfortunately if an LSD is worth that much time it suggests that I may be nearing the end of cheap seconds at Hampton once I fit the R-comps. Fully track prepped 996Ts - weight stripped, with boosted engines, track specific suspension, wheels, brakes, aero, slicks, LSD and pro drivers like Heimgartner aren't running much under the 1:10s to my knowledge.
I've let a colleague with a 991 Turbo S know about HD on the 15th so hopefully we'll at least see them there for the Parade laps.
05-29-2014, 06:30 PM
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05-29-2014, 06:47 PM
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Matt other idea is build it yourself for 1/3rd of the price. I have an auto snipe on the head. It's used but good. I downloaded the catalogue and identified the correct cecomp gauge. All Buxton have done is found a 1/4 inch RNT bleed valve then a low pressure hose and ball joint. Need the cecomp rubber protection sleeve too but they are $15. Nz engineering shops can make the bleed valve hose ball joint Assembly pretty cheap I reckon it's a simple job. Total cost could be as low as $150 nzd. If you are keen on that option I'll pm you the details...
Walt. Fitting an LSD on a non LSD chassis was the single best improvement I made to handling whilst it was working. At least till the end of the NITT last year I could feel it work in track and this wS the feeble two plate 22/40 unit. Matt at Guards assured me this morning his 4 plate 40/60 would be like night and day and would last until the next gearbox rebuild! In terms of the under steer you mention this will not be an issue on the street at least with 40/60 ask Matt G. I never had a problem with the fresh 40/65 in either the RS or GT3. If you went a 8 plate system with more preload on a 50/80 then yes maybe. I think it's a worthwhile improvement for you on Tarmac rally and track and relatively speaking for the handling benefits it's good value....
Walt. Fitting an LSD on a non LSD chassis was the single best improvement I made to handling whilst it was working. At least till the end of the NITT last year I could feel it work in track and this wS the feeble two plate 22/40 unit. Matt at Guards assured me this morning his 4 plate 40/60 would be like night and day and would last until the next gearbox rebuild! In terms of the under steer you mention this will not be an issue on the street at least with 40/60 ask Matt G. I never had a problem with the fresh 40/65 in either the RS or GT3. If you went a 8 plate system with more preload on a 50/80 then yes maybe. I think it's a worthwhile improvement for you on Tarmac rally and track and relatively speaking for the handling benefits it's good value....
05-29-2014, 07:04 PM
Walt. Fitting an LSD on a non LSD chassis was the single best improvement I made to handling whilst it was working. At least till the end of the NITT last year I could feel it work in track and this was the feeble two plate 22/40 unit. Matt at Guards assured me this morning his 4 plate 40/60 would be like night and day and would last until the next gearbox rebuild! In terms of the under steer you mention this will not be an issue on the street at least with 40/60 ask Matt G. I never had a problem with the fresh 40/65 in either the RS or GT3. If you went a 8 plate system with more preload on a 50/80 then yes maybe. I think it's a worthwhile improvement for you on Tarmac rally and track and relatively speaking for the handling benefits it's good value....
05-29-2014, 07:06 PM
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Macca, cool. I'll check the status of my order first. I looked at doing that with a new gauge head from Amazon, but decided I was too lazy and the savings weren't worth it. With a cheaper used gauge head it looks like a better proposition.
Walt, no issues with a Porsche Motorsport 40/60 on the street, I'm sure the Guard would be even nicer. The only time I even notice it is the slight hopping you get while reversing while turning.
Walt, no issues with a Porsche Motorsport 40/60 on the street, I'm sure the Guard would be even nicer. The only time I even notice it is the slight hopping you get while reversing while turning.
05-29-2014, 07:13 PM
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05-29-2014, 07:23 PM
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05-29-2014, 07:52 PM
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05-29-2014, 08:04 PM
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05-29-2014, 08:06 PM
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05-29-2014, 08:10 PM
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Did anyone see this 928 in the Turners damaged car auction?
http://www.turners.co.nz/Damaged-Veh.../928/12550780/
Looks like it has some nice Simmons wheels on it, dont know what the size/et would be though?
http://www.turners.co.nz/Damaged-Veh.../928/12550780/
Looks like it has some nice Simmons wheels on it, dont know what the size/et would be though?