Any Rennlisters from New Zealand?
#7219
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#7220
Rennlist Member
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John, I did alot of work on this when I tuned my engine. Luckily I could drive around with a laptop plugged in and record the trace as I have a much more flexible ECU than those used in the 993/996 gen cars. I can tell you from experience that heat soak (car idling static) can send IAT up to 20-25 above ambient. The hottest I ever managed to get my engine was 48C with the cone filter in summer static test. Its nothing much to do with the outside temp but lack of airflow over the heads. You have to remember your oil temps will be running 120 warm and maybe higher on the track (130?). That head goes into the block. When running the car if you are getting correct and optimal airflow over the heads, airbox and intake manifold your IAT on the run should be dropping back to ideally around 2-7 degrees above ambient dependent on how hard you are pushing the car and speed attained. On the track I would expect to see ambient + 4-5 in my car. Guys on the 993 board have done alot of testing and the factory electric rear spoiler is definitely the best for ventilation (not for downforce tho). The factory spent alot of money testing it. With the ductail there is a really real possibility it does not allow adequate ventilation for track work. The airflow may be backing up in the recess between the tail blade and the grill and creating a pocket of negative pressure preventing any air really passing through the grill and into the engine area at a certain speed. Just a hunch but Ive seen this before on some 993 ducktails - the best ductail for track work was the one below I almost bought last year and posted on this board (got a negative reaction). You will see the vent "gills" are like the factory one and angled to catch air as it comes down from the rear window.... Remember this has nothing to do with engine temp (oil temp) as your oil coolers are at the front of the car and may have plenty of adequate ventilation. You could try an airbox "snorkel" - they may have used them on the 964T to get the air feed closer to the wing grill (they did on the 993 as they obviously identified a weakness here). Of course it could well be none of these. The car runs well for the first session which is odd. I assume furthermore the first half of the first session is better than the second half. If it were the ductail I could only assume its not allowing the heat soak between sessions to be washed away by the following sessions air foil. Not sure how you measure this but suggets a lap with a passenger running the bosch hammer tool in the OBD1 socket reading out IAT will help - you could even do it on the motorway fine. Id say the issue will be above 80kmph if it exists at all. You should be getting between 2-4 C of the ambient on the motorway at around 100-120kmpg IMO... Hope this helps. Must dash now...
#7221
Track Day
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Kohimarama, Auckland, NZ
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Paul, have you decided what suspension upgrade to go with?
#7222
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He dropped the price a few days ago, kept on dropping it until he got a bite. Probably a fair price. Based on what it looked like it was either a good base for a track/targa car or just a roughy. Been there got the Tshirt and know that if I bought it I would strip all of the interior etc. Not worth it.
#7223
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Not yet, I am really keen to have a closer look at your car and see what the ride is like (I need to ask you nicely to take me for a spin around the block and on some bumpy roads). I was thinking the PSS10's, but on reflection, are considering the Bilstien B6 with extra thread - the target is RS + 10mm and some neg camber. But I do like the flexibility of ride comfort and heights that the P10's offer, but don't actually need something this serious............but will I regret not spending the extra $2k while doing the suspension rebuild.........?
I need to figure out what tires to use too as the current set are old and new tires just make such a massive difference to the ride. I am actually thinking Toyo 888's as they are road legal and good in the wet, so a nice road, occasional track combo. Also considering Hankook 221, but can't get my head around them being road legal??
First step is to get running in ship shape order, the car is in at Conti's getting a head to toe going over, a lot will depend on what's found and the $$ damage of this exercise. When John did this with his 964, it cost him $15K...........
I have Saturday to Tuesday off at Papamoa beach, I will be developing a 'to do' list including short shift, golden rod, front bushes, engine mounts etc...., and getting Macca to peer review when he is in town in early Jan. He dosen't know it yet, but I will be taking a harder look at his car and his advise on do's and don't bothers.
There are a couple of things that I don't particularly enjoy about the car including the engine note!! (964's sound far better), it just doesn't sound like a 911 (i.e. air cooled boxer engine). I don't want to do a Macca and scare the neighbors. The fisters and other exhausts I see on you tube make them sound 'too throaty' for my tastes, more like a V8 than a boxer engine. I need an exhaust note solution that makes it sound like a boxer engine. I also don't like the gear shift (I know this is rich for a 915 box driver), it's too long and clunky, so hoping short shift and golden rod improve this.
You can see where my stock standard, road car is heading..................
The problem is I like my cars in 'club sport' spec.
I should have purchased the 996.2 GT3......... that car is such a bargain...........
I need to figure out what tires to use too as the current set are old and new tires just make such a massive difference to the ride. I am actually thinking Toyo 888's as they are road legal and good in the wet, so a nice road, occasional track combo. Also considering Hankook 221, but can't get my head around them being road legal??
First step is to get running in ship shape order, the car is in at Conti's getting a head to toe going over, a lot will depend on what's found and the $$ damage of this exercise. When John did this with his 964, it cost him $15K...........
I have Saturday to Tuesday off at Papamoa beach, I will be developing a 'to do' list including short shift, golden rod, front bushes, engine mounts etc...., and getting Macca to peer review when he is in town in early Jan. He dosen't know it yet, but I will be taking a harder look at his car and his advise on do's and don't bothers.
There are a couple of things that I don't particularly enjoy about the car including the engine note!! (964's sound far better), it just doesn't sound like a 911 (i.e. air cooled boxer engine). I don't want to do a Macca and scare the neighbors. The fisters and other exhausts I see on you tube make them sound 'too throaty' for my tastes, more like a V8 than a boxer engine. I need an exhaust note solution that makes it sound like a boxer engine. I also don't like the gear shift (I know this is rich for a 915 box driver), it's too long and clunky, so hoping short shift and golden rod improve this.
You can see where my stock standard, road car is heading..................
![surrender](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/surrender.gif)
I should have purchased the 996.2 GT3......... that car is such a bargain...........
Last edited by kiwi 911; 12-19-2013 at 05:43 AM.
#7224
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Paul, For a project manager you either seem to have a problem defining the objective or keeping to it!
You were talking family car. Now you're on the slippery slope. You don't need z221s for the road. Give into the force, make this the car you really want and sell the C3.
You were talking family car. Now you're on the slippery slope. You don't need z221s for the road. Give into the force, make this the car you really want and sell the C3.
#7225
Rennlist Member
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Paul, For a project manager you either seem to have a problem defining the objective or keeping to it!
You were talking family car. Now you're on the slippery slope. You don't need z221s for the road. Give into the force, make this the car you really want and sell the C3.
You were talking family car. Now you're on the slippery slope. You don't need z221s for the road. Give into the force, make this the car you really want and sell the C3.
Maybe I hold onto the 993 for a few years to get the 'T shirt' and then buy a GT3.
Bloody track cocaine....................very additive stuff............it's even got me liking 996's
#7226
Track Day
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Location: Kohimarama, Auckland, NZ
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Not yet, I am really keen to have a closer look at your car and see what the ride is like (I need to ask you nicely to take me for a spin around the block and on some bumpy roads). I was thinking the PSS10's, but on reflection, are considering the Bilstien B6 with extra thread - the target is RS + 10mm and some neg camber. But I do like the flexibility of ride comfort and heights that the P10's offer, but don't actually need something this serious............but will I regret not spending the extra $2k while doing the suspension rebuild.........? I need to figure out what tires to use too as the current set are old and new tires just make such a massive difference to the ride. I am actually thinking Toyo 888's as they are road legal and good in the wet, so a nice road, occasional track combo. Also considering Hankook 221, but can't get my head around them being road legal?? First step is to get running in ship shape order, the car is in at Conti's getting a head to toe going over, a lot will depend on what's found and the $$ damage of this exercise. When John did this with his 964, it cost him $15K........... I have Saturday to Tuesday off at Papamoa beach, I will be developing a 'to do' list including short shift, golden rod, front bushes, engine mounts etc...., and getting Macca to peer review when he is in town in early Jan. He dosen't konw it yet, but I will be taking a harder look at his car and his advise on do's and don't bothers. There are a couple of things that I don't particularly enjoy about the car including the engine note!! (964's sound far better), it just doesn't sound like a 911 (i.e. air cooled boxer engine). I don't want to do a Macca and scare the neighbors. The fisters and other exhausts I see on you tube make them sound 'too throaty' for my tastes. I need an exhaust note solution that makes it sound like a boxer engine. I also don't like the gear shift (I know this is rich for a 915 box driver), it's too long and clunky, so hoping short shift and golden rod improve this. You can see where my stock standard, road car is heading..................![surrender](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/surrender.gif)
![surrender](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/surrender.gif)
#7227
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There are a couple of things that I don't particularly enjoy about the car including the engine note!! (964's sound far better), it just doesn't sound like a 911 (i.e. air cooled boxer engine). I don't want to do a Macca and scare the neighbors. The fisters and other exhausts I see on you tube make them sound 'too throaty' for my tastes, more like a V8 than a boxer engine. I need an exhaust note solution that makes it sound like a boxer engine.........
#7228
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We are looking at splashing out on a lux hotel in Monte Carlo for 24/25th. Will only be one night due to $$$! As you may know the Europeans celebrate Xmas on Xmas eve.....
#7229
Rennlist Member
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Not yet, I am really keen to have a closer look at your car and see what the ride is like (I need to ask you nicely to take me for a spin around the block and on some bumpy roads). I was thinking the PSS10's, but on reflection, are considering the Bilstien B6 with extra thread - the target is RS + 10mm and some neg camber. But I do like the flexibility of ride comfort and heights that the P10's offer, but don't actually need something this serious............but will I regret not spending the extra $2k while doing the suspension rebuild.........?
I need to figure out what tires to use too as the current set are old and new tires just make such a massive difference to the ride. I am actually thinking Toyo 888's as they are road legal and good in the wet, so a nice road, occasional track combo. Also considering Hankook 221, but can't get my head around them being road legal??
First step is to get running in ship shape order, the car is in at Conti's getting a head to toe going over, a lot will depend on what's found and the $$ damage of this exercise. When John did this with his 964, it cost him $15K...........
I have Saturday to Tuesday off at Papamoa beach, I will be developing a 'to do' list including short shift, golden rod, front bushes, engine mounts etc...., and getting Macca to peer review when he is in town in early Jan. He dosen't know it yet, but I will be taking a harder look at his car and his advise on do's and don't bothers.
There are a couple of things that I don't particularly enjoy about the car including the engine note!! (964's sound far better), it just doesn't sound like a 911 (i.e. air cooled boxer engine). I don't want to do a Macca and scare the neighbors. The fisters and other exhausts I see on you tube make them sound 'too throaty' for my tastes, more like a V8 than a boxer engine. I need an exhaust note solution that makes it sound like a boxer engine. I also don't like the gear shift (I know this is rich for a 915 box driver), it's too long and clunky, so hoping short shift and golden rod improve this.
You can see where my stock standard, road car is heading..................
The problem is I like my cars in 'club sport' spec.
I should have purchased the 996.2 GT3......... that car is such a bargain...........
I need to figure out what tires to use too as the current set are old and new tires just make such a massive difference to the ride. I am actually thinking Toyo 888's as they are road legal and good in the wet, so a nice road, occasional track combo. Also considering Hankook 221, but can't get my head around them being road legal??
First step is to get running in ship shape order, the car is in at Conti's getting a head to toe going over, a lot will depend on what's found and the $$ damage of this exercise. When John did this with his 964, it cost him $15K...........
I have Saturday to Tuesday off at Papamoa beach, I will be developing a 'to do' list including short shift, golden rod, front bushes, engine mounts etc...., and getting Macca to peer review when he is in town in early Jan. He dosen't know it yet, but I will be taking a harder look at his car and his advise on do's and don't bothers.
There are a couple of things that I don't particularly enjoy about the car including the engine note!! (964's sound far better), it just doesn't sound like a 911 (i.e. air cooled boxer engine). I don't want to do a Macca and scare the neighbors. The fisters and other exhausts I see on you tube make them sound 'too throaty' for my tastes, more like a V8 than a boxer engine. I need an exhaust note solution that makes it sound like a boxer engine. I also don't like the gear shift (I know this is rich for a 915 box driver), it's too long and clunky, so hoping short shift and golden rod improve this.
You can see where my stock standard, road car is heading..................
![surrender](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/surrender.gif)
I should have purchased the 996.2 GT3......... that car is such a bargain...........
Firstly, good move on having Deanos boys look your car over thoroughly. This will give you a good start point.
Secondly your 993 is running standard exhaust. Most of th 964s you have driven at HD have had modified (Dave, Pete, John etc). The 993 will respond very well to a rear muffler update. I would recommend RSR exhaust via Gert at Carnewal. Lovely sound - they were my favorites by a long way till I split hem from the heat on the dyno in 2010 and changed them to Fister stage 2 then stage 1 - which have a different sound - but I really prefer the more shrill metallic old school sound of the RSRs. Check out John McMs youtube site to hear them on my unmodified engine prior to all the engine work. I did have cat delete in the clip so factor a bit quieter for your car - fine for the neighbors too.
The FD golden rod with RS shifter fork kit from FD Motorsport will sort out the long shift change you are experiencing. Its not an expensive upgrade.
For suspension is back to fit for purpose and first as John says you need to define purpose. If its a mostly road car the B6/HD with some thicker roll bars will be fine. There will be tie rods and A arm bushes to attend to also to really tighten things up in the steering department as Mike says.
If you are going to take this car to the track my advice is do not. It will start something that will get very expensive!
Happy to go over your car when Im back in Jan. I have a few ideas on how to keep you poor....
P.S. Z221 and Toyo 888 tyre tread patters are quite similar. Both R compound dot rated and street legal. Ive driven my Z221 in cold, warm, pouring rain and hot dry and they handle very well to me.
For a street 993 on 17s I would consider Super Sports but I understand they may not make these in your sizes. If so consider the new Bridgestone S04 maybe or the Plot Sport PS2....