peterC2S

The suspense is killing me too... incoming e-mail at 4:30. I'm told there were no concerns with the numbers though... clutch a bit heavy and the usual minor bits. Man I feel like a kid the night before x-mas!!

KiwiSean

If I wasn't 4hrs behind I'd crack open a beer, kick my feet up and wait for the post with the details! haha

peterC2S

OK, I'm officially a very happy 964 owner (subject to the small matter of paying for it!!)

Compression was good, 12-13 bar spread (12, 12.5, 12, 13, 13 & 13) which I think is between 174-188psi and max 8% variance. On that basis we didn't do leakdown.

Lots of minor issues to sort but nothing I haven't been through before so nothing unexpected;

- Bump stops on front shocks
- Wishbone bushes
- Front stabiliser arms
- Front discs & pads
- cracked spoiler wall
- small leak near the oil pressure switch
- Slight leak around chain housing cover
- and all the other minor cosmetic stuff you expect on a 20 year old car

So plan from here is just to drive her for couple of weeks and enjoy the feel as a daily driver. Pretty keen to hear any views on an ideal suspension set up for daily driving with "occasional" track day.

Pics to come in a few days.

Did I mention I was happy!!!

Pete

KiwiSean

Nice!!! Congrats mate that's awesome. Another Red 964 in the Auckland crew, good times!

I think that the general consensus is KWV3s or PSS10s for suspension depending on who you talk to. I don't think you can go wrong with either.

Cheapest place I found to get PSS10s is from Gert @ Carnewal in Germany (well it was until the NZD went wayward this past week or so). I had a quote for $3,000 NZD to the door in Auckland. Not sure on KWs...

I bet you can't wait to pick her up. Look forward to seeing some pics!

Cheers.

peterC2S

Thanks Sean - for me this is going back to where it started. My first Porsche was a 1990 guards red manual which I regard as my "learning experience". No PPI and did I pay for it! Since then I've been through a 993 C2S, another 1991 guards red tipo and for a few misguided years a guards red 997. So every second car brings me back to the same model & colour!

Anyway, for now this is it. I'm actually happiest to have found this one as it ticks all the boxes. There's work to do sure but I'll take my time - the slippery slope will be a long and winding one!

As you say, good times!! Looking forward to meeting everyone and sharing the passion.

Obsessed

Whoa, all sorts of buying/upgrading/building action going on, exciting stuff! John, don't forget to post some pics of your new car, which sounds great. Sorry to miss you at the track, we were all tucked away at the end of the pit lane.

Sean, shame that your car wasn't ready but it would have been a mistake to rush finishing it I think. It can't be far away now?

I'm curious to know what's the particular appeal of the 964 that's pointing everyone in that direction at the moment?

KiwiSean

Yeah, you're right. I think probably another week. Steve's taking it easy which is fine.

I think everyone will have different reasons but for me the 964 RS and 965 were cars I lusted over when I was young. That and when I went to buy I thought it was the best combination of classic styling with relatively modern running gear. With a little work to the 3.6 and some weight loss they really seem to go well.

I've not been in Macca's car but I'm sure a well sorted and dieted 993 handles better but, for me personally, I like the classic upright headlights.

mjg

Congratulations on the purchase Peter!

That's a pretty sharp price on the PSS10s. My KW v3s from Design911 in the UK were around $4k landed after the tax man took his share. They have the PSS10s for a similar price, so it's possible you'll find the KWs cheaper elsewhere. KWs are also available locally through Autoquip at similar prices.

If you don't think you'll use the adjustable rebound and compression, the KW v1s are supposed to have the same spring rate and valving as the v3s for quite a bit less money. Also note that the KW V3s come with monoball rear top mounts, so that's another $500 you don't need to spend; it looks like the PSS10s use the existing mounts, but I could be wrong.

Does anyone know the PSS10 spring rates? I couldn't find them with a quick Google. The KW v3s appear to be 171lb/in in the front and 456lb/in in the rear, all linear springs (KW aren't exactly forthcoming with this info). For comparison, the 964RS runs 247lb/in front and 440lb/in rear, but with progressive springs (but weighs ~140kg less). That seems to give the KWs similar spring rates to the front of the M030 factory upgrade, and stiffer rears than the RS... quite an interesting combination.

KiwiSean

Here's a good thread for you mate:

https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...son-chart.html

Looks like the Bilsteins are a bit heavier, more like a KW Clubsport in spring rates. Not sure what the damper/rebound differences are though.

Macca

Hi Guys.

I can probably share a little experience albeit with a 993 not a 993.

Over 12 years I've had factory stock, factory plus M033 lowering springs, Bilstein HD with MO30 sport springs and now Bilstein PSS10. I have no experience with KWv3 although I did read alot about them when making my choice and I believe they are a quality product.

I paid 3350 nzd landed for the PSS10s from FD Motorsports in the US (Mark and Darren) last year but cant recall the exchange rate at the time. Given where the USD sits today they would likely be closer to 3.9k landed and taxed by my reckoning.

There was nothing wrong with my HD+M030 set up for the road. It had barely 8000km on it. However I wanted a lower vehicle. I had run out of height on the front shocks. I had also installed a solid rear shim (suspension tub mounts) kit and that meant the geometry had changed at the rear (i.e. the suspension subframe was now 20mm lower than factory thus pushing the wheels away from the wheel arch) and although I wasn't yet run out of thread with the rear HDs it was clear that I was limited in how much lower I could get them.

The PSS10s actually turned out to be a revelation for me. I hear two stories. One that it could be harsher and then second (from more knowledgeable sources I felt) that PSS10 had way better rebound and compression than non coilover HDs. In my experience the latter was correct. After fitting I was surprised to find that on the road and for fast road driving the car just handled rough surfaces and expansion joints etc so much better. Sure it was firmer but it was may more controlled. If you go fast down a dip and over a wavy surface you really notice how quickly the coilover system corrects back to stable.

My views are that a well sorted coilover system is superior under all circumstances to a mono tube.

The spring rates I studied at length. I have a file on my PC full of data from the board on spring rates. My resrach for the 993 led me to believe that neither PSS10 or KWv3 have the perfect balance of spring rates for the 911. The only guys I believe who probably got it technically right was H&R with their coilovers back in the day (used by the Cup teams). The standard 911 without LSD need a bit of stiffness up front and its the ration between spring rate front to rear which is the key component. The factory knew form race experience where the ration should be. The H&Rs come in a few variants but all honoured this ration closer than any other aftermarket shock - albeit they were probably too hard for my application.

With the PSS10 I have to dial the stiffness up at the front quite a bit even with a 40/65 LSD. Otherwise she gets floaty on fast road especially as the gas level drops. I have the adjustable roll bars at the front set on noytch three I think (softest of 3) to compensate somewhat for the understeer nature of the LSD pushing from behind. This combined with a setting at the top end of the front shock range for stiffness seems to work well on targa type roads. On the track it needs adjusting further. The rears however are the opposite. I keep them towards the softer setting but with the arb set one notch (out of 5) firmer. I think I still need to play with this a little as an extra passanger, full fuel and weekend luggage can change the behaviors of the car again when heading over 130kmph on NZ roads. I will have to do some work perfecting these settings by trial and error during the Targa NZ Tour. Keeping it on the black stuff will be my primary concern tho LOL!

Its a bit of a black art and sometimes alot of trial and error. I can say however if you are thinking new shocks and springs do straight to coilovers and be done with it even for street driving at sport height settings the ride will improve.

Regards the 964 vs 993 debate its a personal thing I think. I used to like the 993 shape far more than the 964 shape which I thought looked antiquated. As time goes on and the 911 gets bigger and bigger and rounder and rounder I find myself liking the 964 more and more. Its wonderfully packages and there is plenty of scope to get great performance from them. I like them and they make good sense in the enthusiast circle as they are reasonably priced (although getting scarce and will hold their value well). My only gripe on the 964 is the build quality and finishing (interior specifically). My observation is things improved a lot at Porsche factory between the 964/968 and 993 generations. Compared to the new kit however its not so noticeable.

Go forth guys and mod the crap out of your 964s. Sean and I need some company :-)

Big congrats Peter. Welcome home!

peterC2S

Thanks heaps for posting that Mark - appreciated. And your comments Matt & Sean. Lots to read and digest. I am definitely in the DD camp so on the road day to day means the most - being able to get in and smile all the way too and from work. Picked her up today and with the sunroof open and the radio off it just felt so right!! And I'd forgotten about 3rd gear uphill!!! :-)

Initial impressions are that there is definitely work to be done on the suspension so that's project number 1. Will take a bit of time to get it right. Will probably do the clutch sometime soon as well.

Door check straps on the drivers side are shot and there is a loud audible 'clunk' on opening and closing. PPI suggested it was a bodyshop job. Any recommendations locally for this job specifically?

Also see that I'm not the only one with a new toy today - check out Ash's gorgeous new ride in the 964 forum. Stunning.

KiwiSean

Wow, Ash's car looks like a stunner. Let's hope we get a good dry summer for getting the cars together frequently.

cbnz

Hi Peter, if you want your check strap done, and any other spanner or paint/panel work, send me a PM. I help the guy out who owned Ash's car and would be happy to introduce you. He works on my car and imho does a far better and more thorough job than most of the experts out there. Cheers.

John McM

I saw the '73 RS in the area behind the pits. I didn't think to go through the pits as I didn't see any 964s on the track Here's proof I was there. Plus a couple of pics of the new car... and you.

kiwi 911

Hummm 3.6 Turbo - very nice.

Every time I see one of these I start singing Bad boys - Bad boys in my head...........................