Any Rennlisters from New Zealand?
09-10-2016, 11:38 PM
Rennlist Member
Must be Michael. The seller gave me the courier packing size as 360mm
09-11-2016, 02:22 AM
Rennlist Member
Enjoyable day today. Ron Sunday Drive with 8 cars including 2 x GT3 + 1 x GT4. Weather was perfect for it and it was a great chance to break in the new exhaust and pads both which delivered on expectations.
Leong and I swapped keys for an hour of fast back road driving. Not quite Targa pace but with a little foxing I did get the chance to push the GT4 hard enough to reveal its character (on road at least and within my abilities given it was the first time I had driven one properly).
It was a very interesting exercise. These are my thoughts after a good drive and then back into my GT3.
Review:
1). General. Its a very easy car to drive, right off the bat. Requires little familiarity to start pushing the chassis hard and getting into the "groove" with the car. All controls fall easily to hand, clutch pedal weight is good, visibility is excellent and it does feel a little smaller than the 911 from the drivers seat.
2). Gearbox. Excellent. Very direct, notchy but positive and not vagueness. Its the best manual Porsche gearbox Ive ever used. Gear ratios I thought were good, other than 1-2 which is the only criticism I believe has any merit on the reviews Ive read. On tight back roads sometimes 2 seems to high but 1 would be too low. Otherwise I think the gearing criticism is probably a bit overdone, the cars generous torque (it has only 10lbft less than the GT3) allows even the fractionally high 3rd gear to get the job done. Overall the gearing was more forgivable than I expected and my only criticism is the 1-2, but you can drive around it.
3). Steering. Its is not as immediate on turn in as the GT3 (probably in part due to the chassis configuration) but is does have a fraction more feedback (again possibly due to the chassis configuration).
4). Brakes. These are the same as the GT3, work great and nothing much to say here.
5). Engine/exhaust. There is enough torque and power for the chassis. Jumping from the GT3 to 4 to 3 again the largest single difference is the power unit. The GT4 runs out or revs relatively quickly when you are used to driving anything with a 8000-9000 limiter. The engine lacks the sound and frenzied character of the GT3 and the exhaust although it sounds ok from outside the car (I used the exhaust mode on for alot of my driving) doesn't become an overly memorable part of the driving experience. In the GT3 is "all about the engine". Not so in the GT4 , but its a great deployment of the 911 3.8 unit and it gets the job done with good mid range torque.
6). Chassis. This was predictably the second largest difference in the nature of the two cars after the engine. Ive been a 911 driver almost 20 years so had got used to exploiting the balance of traits of those cars. The Cayman chassis differs by having more neutrality mid corner. You can take a different line than the 911. Entry can be different and on the limit of under and over-steer the car feels quite neutral. It has to be said that Leong has done quite alot of work to his chassis to get it this way so out of the box fresh Im guessing a stock GT4 may feel a bit different. I never got out of shape with it (other peoples cars etc) but I did get it (by over exuberance) closer to the limits of its safe traction on two occasions, partially testament in a first drive as to how confidence inspiring the chassis is. I think once you know it better you can work it harder, but is its a less weight transfer sensitive chassis to the 911 at least with Leongs set up and Im still unsure if I like that personally or not (i.e. for the follies of the 911 chassis I do quite like the way that once you understand the effect of the weight transfer you can make the chassis work with you - the only caveat is when you much it up it can get rather undone - but this may also be a personality thing because Im probably like things a little more "close to the edge" than some folks). Overall very competent handling that inspires confidence and it very neutral to the limit.
7). NVH. Interestingly the GT4 felt LESS compliant on the road. Probably the shorter wheel base and could well be the configuration of the rear suspension (less travel?). We drove some very poor surfaces at speeds they were not designed for and the car does feel quite stiff at times but its not a deterrent to pressing on. There is a fraction more rear tyre roar and you can hear the pinion shaft more clearly (I guess both are because the components are closer to the driver and the box is MT with a mechanical diff?).
8). Electronic blip. Sport Mode. I can really see the advantage of this on the track, but I have to say it annoyed me on teh road. Probably more seat time would temper that, but it does seem a bit "derived" when you first drive the car. My issue is I like to heel and toe, its really part of the MT experience that makes driving a car with a stick more involving and personally challenging for me. So after a few minutes with it one forgetting it was doing the blip half way through me doing it myself I shut if off and felt the car was better for it. Its a personal thing. On the track I can see its benefit in gearbox and engine sympathy, but for a fast back road drive it seemed unnecessary with such a great snicky box and good clutch action...others may differ.
9). Other. You do not notice the GT4 is lighter than the GT3 in real life. The GT4 feels built to the same solid standard as the GT3, stiff and unbreakable.
In summary these two cars are more different than I actually expected!
The GT4 met my expectations in pretty much every category other than one. Like most Ive read much about this car by now and the reviews are very good so my expectations were high, so the fact that it met them is a very positive thing. Its a great car and fun to drive on the road and (I imagine) the track. The car is very easy to learn to drive quickly. I highly recommend it and would say its one of the best Porsche's Ive had the pleasure to drive to date.
However...(this is where I imagine being a 911/GT3 owner has tainted me), the GT3 engine is an EVENT. If you were not coming from a 8000-9000 rpm GT3 to a GT4 you would unlikely know any different but I must say the single most noticeable thing to me getting in the GT4 was "where has my engine gone?". The frenzied nature of 8000+, sound and vibrations and exhaust wail (and standing hairs on back of neck) are somewhat obvious by their absence. The steering is more direct and the chassis loading more reliant on weight transfer and balance which makes the GT3 a more difficult proposition to get the best out of, but ultimately more rewarding I believe when you figure it out.
Interestingly the PDK vs MT thing didn't really play a large part in my review. This is because I believe in the merits of both transmissions now having lived 20+ years with MT and 3 years with PDK-S. I still chuckle frequently banging through gears in the GT3 on back roads, the engine whipping through the 7 closely stacked ratios so fast that sometimes its seems arcade like and gives a curious high. Returning from the drive the Southern Motorway was crawling pace for 35 minutes and here the advantage to throw it into auto for the first time that day becomes apparent.
The 6 speed MT in the GT4 is great too, but you only use 2-3 gears for 85% of that type of driving. Lower rations would certainly improve the level of engagement a little I believe. I love getting a good down-change with H&T timing and this cars box and clutch are SOOOOO much easier to do it in than the G50 in the 993 (horrible by comparison to be honest!). Both transmissions suit the work they do and the chars they are in well I thing and compliment each other well.
For fast NZ B roads the GT4s reach is such that you can use up most of its performance. The GT3 however is often straining at its leach. I have used the full reach of the GT3 on the road on a number of occasion - its requires utter concentration on our poor B road surfaces and acceptance of the possible consequences of the pace it produces. I like to "get on it" when I can so I always found I could drive my 993 a bit quicker on the road than the GT3. I have driven my GT3 quicker than my 993 but for very small windows of time on certain well paved roads - but for duration of pace a car like my old 993 and GT4 is better suited to NZ roads IMO. If we lived in Europe I can say the reverse is likely true!
I think is you wanted a short answer to this review then look at it like this: the GT3 is defined by its engine/exhaust and the GT4 my its Manual Transmission.
IMO if you are looking for a single car solution to a brilliant road and track Porsche that represents value for money the GT4 cannot be bettered. If you are a multiple past Porsche owner and have ever lived with a high revving flat 6 (any generation GT3 or MFI 2.4 hot rod or similar) then the extra money for a GT3 may be well spent. Next generation GT3 includes MT so I guess the decision will get easier for some if they have the budget. Both excellent cars and I really did enjoy my time in the GT4 , I was not dissapointed, it was as I expected but I also enjoyed getting back into my GT3 too!
If life were perfect I might have both!
Thanks Leong for the drive, as I said it was the best Bday gift I got!
Leong and I swapped keys for an hour of fast back road driving. Not quite Targa pace but with a little foxing I did get the chance to push the GT4 hard enough to reveal its character (on road at least and within my abilities given it was the first time I had driven one properly).
It was a very interesting exercise. These are my thoughts after a good drive and then back into my GT3.
Review:
1). General. Its a very easy car to drive, right off the bat. Requires little familiarity to start pushing the chassis hard and getting into the "groove" with the car. All controls fall easily to hand, clutch pedal weight is good, visibility is excellent and it does feel a little smaller than the 911 from the drivers seat.
2). Gearbox. Excellent. Very direct, notchy but positive and not vagueness. Its the best manual Porsche gearbox Ive ever used. Gear ratios I thought were good, other than 1-2 which is the only criticism I believe has any merit on the reviews Ive read. On tight back roads sometimes 2 seems to high but 1 would be too low. Otherwise I think the gearing criticism is probably a bit overdone, the cars generous torque (it has only 10lbft less than the GT3) allows even the fractionally high 3rd gear to get the job done. Overall the gearing was more forgivable than I expected and my only criticism is the 1-2, but you can drive around it.
3). Steering. Its is not as immediate on turn in as the GT3 (probably in part due to the chassis configuration) but is does have a fraction more feedback (again possibly due to the chassis configuration).
4). Brakes. These are the same as the GT3, work great and nothing much to say here.
5). Engine/exhaust. There is enough torque and power for the chassis. Jumping from the GT3 to 4 to 3 again the largest single difference is the power unit. The GT4 runs out or revs relatively quickly when you are used to driving anything with a 8000-9000 limiter. The engine lacks the sound and frenzied character of the GT3 and the exhaust although it sounds ok from outside the car (I used the exhaust mode on for alot of my driving) doesn't become an overly memorable part of the driving experience. In the GT3 is "all about the engine". Not so in the GT4 , but its a great deployment of the 911 3.8 unit and it gets the job done with good mid range torque.
6). Chassis. This was predictably the second largest difference in the nature of the two cars after the engine. Ive been a 911 driver almost 20 years so had got used to exploiting the balance of traits of those cars. The Cayman chassis differs by having more neutrality mid corner. You can take a different line than the 911. Entry can be different and on the limit of under and over-steer the car feels quite neutral. It has to be said that Leong has done quite alot of work to his chassis to get it this way so out of the box fresh Im guessing a stock GT4 may feel a bit different. I never got out of shape with it (other peoples cars etc) but I did get it (by over exuberance) closer to the limits of its safe traction on two occasions, partially testament in a first drive as to how confidence inspiring the chassis is. I think once you know it better you can work it harder, but is its a less weight transfer sensitive chassis to the 911 at least with Leongs set up and Im still unsure if I like that personally or not (i.e. for the follies of the 911 chassis I do quite like the way that once you understand the effect of the weight transfer you can make the chassis work with you - the only caveat is when you much it up it can get rather undone - but this may also be a personality thing because Im probably like things a little more "close to the edge" than some folks). Overall very competent handling that inspires confidence and it very neutral to the limit.
7). NVH. Interestingly the GT4 felt LESS compliant on the road. Probably the shorter wheel base and could well be the configuration of the rear suspension (less travel?). We drove some very poor surfaces at speeds they were not designed for and the car does feel quite stiff at times but its not a deterrent to pressing on. There is a fraction more rear tyre roar and you can hear the pinion shaft more clearly (I guess both are because the components are closer to the driver and the box is MT with a mechanical diff?).
8). Electronic blip. Sport Mode. I can really see the advantage of this on the track, but I have to say it annoyed me on teh road. Probably more seat time would temper that, but it does seem a bit "derived" when you first drive the car. My issue is I like to heel and toe, its really part of the MT experience that makes driving a car with a stick more involving and personally challenging for me. So after a few minutes with it one forgetting it was doing the blip half way through me doing it myself I shut if off and felt the car was better for it. Its a personal thing. On the track I can see its benefit in gearbox and engine sympathy, but for a fast back road drive it seemed unnecessary with such a great snicky box and good clutch action...others may differ.
9). Other. You do not notice the GT4 is lighter than the GT3 in real life. The GT4 feels built to the same solid standard as the GT3, stiff and unbreakable.
In summary these two cars are more different than I actually expected!
The GT4 met my expectations in pretty much every category other than one. Like most Ive read much about this car by now and the reviews are very good so my expectations were high, so the fact that it met them is a very positive thing. Its a great car and fun to drive on the road and (I imagine) the track. The car is very easy to learn to drive quickly. I highly recommend it and would say its one of the best Porsche's Ive had the pleasure to drive to date.
However...(this is where I imagine being a 911/GT3 owner has tainted me), the GT3 engine is an EVENT. If you were not coming from a 8000-9000 rpm GT3 to a GT4 you would unlikely know any different but I must say the single most noticeable thing to me getting in the GT4 was "where has my engine gone?". The frenzied nature of 8000+, sound and vibrations and exhaust wail (and standing hairs on back of neck) are somewhat obvious by their absence. The steering is more direct and the chassis loading more reliant on weight transfer and balance which makes the GT3 a more difficult proposition to get the best out of, but ultimately more rewarding I believe when you figure it out.
Interestingly the PDK vs MT thing didn't really play a large part in my review. This is because I believe in the merits of both transmissions now having lived 20+ years with MT and 3 years with PDK-S. I still chuckle frequently banging through gears in the GT3 on back roads, the engine whipping through the 7 closely stacked ratios so fast that sometimes its seems arcade like and gives a curious high. Returning from the drive the Southern Motorway was crawling pace for 35 minutes and here the advantage to throw it into auto for the first time that day becomes apparent.
The 6 speed MT in the GT4 is great too, but you only use 2-3 gears for 85% of that type of driving. Lower rations would certainly improve the level of engagement a little I believe. I love getting a good down-change with H&T timing and this cars box and clutch are SOOOOO much easier to do it in than the G50 in the 993 (horrible by comparison to be honest!). Both transmissions suit the work they do and the chars they are in well I thing and compliment each other well.
For fast NZ B roads the GT4s reach is such that you can use up most of its performance. The GT3 however is often straining at its leach. I have used the full reach of the GT3 on the road on a number of occasion - its requires utter concentration on our poor B road surfaces and acceptance of the possible consequences of the pace it produces. I like to "get on it" when I can so I always found I could drive my 993 a bit quicker on the road than the GT3. I have driven my GT3 quicker than my 993 but for very small windows of time on certain well paved roads - but for duration of pace a car like my old 993 and GT4 is better suited to NZ roads IMO. If we lived in Europe I can say the reverse is likely true!
I think is you wanted a short answer to this review then look at it like this: the GT3 is defined by its engine/exhaust and the GT4 my its Manual Transmission.
IMO if you are looking for a single car solution to a brilliant road and track Porsche that represents value for money the GT4 cannot be bettered. If you are a multiple past Porsche owner and have ever lived with a high revving flat 6 (any generation GT3 or MFI 2.4 hot rod or similar) then the extra money for a GT3 may be well spent. Next generation GT3 includes MT so I guess the decision will get easier for some if they have the budget. Both excellent cars and I really did enjoy my time in the GT4 , I was not dissapointed, it was as I expected but I also enjoyed getting back into my GT3 too!
If life were perfect I might have both!
Thanks Leong for the drive, as I said it was the best Bday gift I got!
Last edited by Macca; 09-11-2016 at 03:07 AM.
09-11-2016, 03:44 AM
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2011
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993 gearbox benefits from "proper" double de-clutch hnt downshifts. takes a fraction longer but much easier on the tranny. Just blipping with clutch pedal on floor doesn't bring the 'box internals up to speed properly
09-11-2016, 05:30 AM
Instructor
A very thorough review as usual Mark 
. Yes an awesome day for it today. My first time driving a GT3 and one hugely exhilarating experience. Mark, your car sounds so much better now than over last summer. I thought I might get to hear my car from the outside for the first time when I got you to go in front of me, but it was pretty difficult as I couldn’t stay with you while trying to drive “quietly” in your car to hear it
The biggest differences I thought were in the steering and damping. More precise and easier to turn in than the GT4, and more compliant in the suspension with amazing body control. At the pace we were going, even with the foxing, we were nowhere near the GT3’s limits. Then the engine!! Mark, It wasn’t until you were in front of me that I used the full 9000rpm…. sorry if you wanted to hear what that sounded like from the outside. I just wasn’t used to revving that far, and of course, needed some time to get used to the car and that “other peoples car” factored into it too. And yes, that word “frenzied” is exactly how I would describe it if you dropped down to 2nd and used those revs. It’s an amazing engine, and the chassis can handle it. I’d agree that the chassis on the GT4 is less complaint, and on back road drives like today more power might be a liability. I think that on the track there would be less difference. Do our cars have the same shocks? ( at the front at least? ) It doesn’t feel like it.
Thanks for the drive Mark, and yes, I enjoyed getting back in my car as well. While not the machine the GT3 is, it’s still a great drivers car
. Yes an awesome day for it today. My first time driving a GT3 and one hugely exhilarating experience. Mark, your car sounds so much better now than over last summer. I thought I might get to hear my car from the outside for the first time when I got you to go in front of me, but it was pretty difficult as I couldn’t stay with you while trying to drive “quietly” in your car to hear it The biggest differences I thought were in the steering and damping. More precise and easier to turn in than the GT4, and more compliant in the suspension with amazing body control. At the pace we were going, even with the foxing, we were nowhere near the GT3’s limits. Then the engine!! Mark, It wasn’t until you were in front of me that I used the full 9000rpm…. sorry if you wanted to hear what that sounded like from the outside. I just wasn’t used to revving that far, and of course, needed some time to get used to the car and that “other peoples car” factored into it too. And yes, that word “frenzied” is exactly how I would describe it if you dropped down to 2nd and used those revs. It’s an amazing engine, and the chassis can handle it. I’d agree that the chassis on the GT4 is less complaint, and on back road drives like today more power might be a liability. I think that on the track there would be less difference. Do our cars have the same shocks? ( at the front at least? ) It doesn’t feel like it.
Thanks for the drive Mark, and yes, I enjoyed getting back in my car as well. While not the machine the GT3 is, it’s still a great drivers car
09-11-2016, 05:41 AM
Rennlist Member
Agreed Dave. My 993 became even more difficult once I fitted LWFC and single pullys. The revs dropped even faster then which made rev matching harder indeed...
09-11-2016, 06:15 AM
Rennlist Member
A very thorough review as usual Mark . Yes an awesome day for it today. My first time driving a GT3 and one hugely exhilarating experience. Mark, your car sounds so much better now than over last summer. I thought I might get to hear my car from the outside for the first time when I got you to go in front of me, but it was pretty difficult as I couldn’t stay with you while trying to drive “quietly” in your car to hear it
The biggest differences I thought were in the steering and damping. More precise and easier to turn in than the GT4, and more compliant in the suspension with amazing body control. At the pace we were going, even with the foxing, we were nowhere near the GT3’s limits. Then the engine!! Mark, It wasn’t until you were in front of me that I used the full 9000rpm…. sorry if you wanted to hear what that sounded like from the outside. I just wasn’t used to revving that far, and of course, needed some time to get used to the car and that “other peoples car” factored into it too. And yes, that word “frenzied” is exactly how I would describe it if you dropped down to 2nd and used those revs. It’s an amazing engine, and the chassis can handle it. I’d agree that the chassis on the GT4 is less complaint, and on back road drives like today more power might be a liability. I think that on the track there would be less difference. Do our cars have the same shocks? ( at the front at least? ) It doesn’t feel like it.
Thanks for the drive Mark, and yes, I enjoyed getting back in my car as well. While not the machine the GT3 is, it’s still a great drivers car
. Yes an awesome day for it today. My first time driving a GT3 and one hugely exhilarating experience. Mark, your car sounds so much better now than over last summer. I thought I might get to hear my car from the outside for the first time when I got you to go in front of me, but it was pretty difficult as I couldn’t stay with you while trying to drive “quietly” in your car to hear it The biggest differences I thought were in the steering and damping. More precise and easier to turn in than the GT4, and more compliant in the suspension with amazing body control. At the pace we were going, even with the foxing, we were nowhere near the GT3’s limits. Then the engine!! Mark, It wasn’t until you were in front of me that I used the full 9000rpm…. sorry if you wanted to hear what that sounded like from the outside. I just wasn’t used to revving that far, and of course, needed some time to get used to the car and that “other peoples car” factored into it too. And yes, that word “frenzied” is exactly how I would describe it if you dropped down to 2nd and used those revs. It’s an amazing engine, and the chassis can handle it. I’d agree that the chassis on the GT4 is less complaint, and on back road drives like today more power might be a liability. I think that on the track there would be less difference. Do our cars have the same shocks? ( at the front at least? ) It doesn’t feel like it.
Thanks for the drive Mark, and yes, I enjoyed getting back in my car as well. While not the machine the GT3 is, it’s still a great drivers car
Im very happy with the exhaust. Its louder across the range around 15-20% without the exhaust button on and 30-35% between 0-4000 rpm when the exhaust button is depressed. The power feels a bit stronger across the range evenly but it isnt peaky and doesn't change the delivery characteristics. Unfortunately I have no recent seat time before the exhaust was fitted as I haven't driven the car for 6 months until today, so to be honest Ive forgotten what it was like to know for sure if it feels quicker or not. A day at HD track might tell.
Just for references sake incase anyone is reading this later, I had the factory suspension PASM fitted and Leongs car has the DSC unit with custom maps.
With regards the shocks Leong, I have no idea but will look into it...
With regards to body control, one of the differences between the two cars that may have played into this is that the GT3 has active engine mounts and a 0-100 variable electronic diff.
As we all know the road and track are two totally different environs and rarely is a car great at both. The GT3 is probably a bit too much car for the road in NZ but excells (even in stock trim) on the track. The GT4 is probably more usable than the GT3 on the road but not quite as potent on track.
They are both great cars, each with pluses and minuses. For the money the GT4 is the stand out bargain of the two but if you were coming from an older GT3 you would need a Cargraphic or Dundon sports exhaust I think to "liven things up" a bit in the engine department. Its obviously an effective car with a little suspension fettling on the track (but dont expect to be as quick as Leong!). We are very lucky today to have such great new car choices.
09-11-2016, 06:48 PM
Good news today (actually in truth a few weeks ago)
I ordered a Guilia Quadrifoglio Verde for UK delivery (and extended 2017 European holiday)! Goodwood, LeMans, Italy, Spain and Greece. Bonniville Speed Week on the way back if I can.
Only one problem. My wife doesn't know. I will either get sign off or be a freshly divorced single man for this trip. If latter then more time in Greece and swap Bonneville for Asia on way home ;-)
I ordered a Guilia Quadrifoglio Verde for UK delivery (and extended 2017 European holiday)! Goodwood, LeMans, Italy, Spain and Greece. Bonniville Speed Week on the way back if I can.
Only one problem. My wife doesn't know. I will either get sign off or be a freshly divorced single man for this trip. If latter then more time in Greece and swap Bonneville for Asia on way home ;-)
09-12-2016, 04:58 AM
A very thorough review as usual Mark . Yes an awesome day for it today. My first time driving a GT3 and one hugely exhilarating experience...The biggest differences I thought were in the steering and damping. More precise and easier to turn in than the GT4, and more compliant in the suspension with amazing body control... I’d agree that the chassis on the GT4 is less compliant, and on back road drives like today more power might be a liability. I think that on the track there would be less difference.
. Yes an awesome day for it today. My first time driving a GT3 and one hugely exhilarating experience...The biggest differences I thought were in the steering and damping. More precise and easier to turn in than the GT4, and more compliant in the suspension with amazing body control... I’d agree that the chassis on the GT4 is less compliant, and on back road drives like today more power might be a liability. I think that on the track there would be less difference."The front suspension is almost a total carry-over from the GT3. This means solid top mounts, motorsport style adjustable forged alloy lower arms, fully adjustable coil-over spring and damper units, and a three-position adjustable anti-roll bar." (and more here, including the spring rate comment - http://www.9tro.com/features/new-car...ion-of-balance)
So provided tyres were similar and similarly worn (newer tyres with tread squirm dont feel as direct and responsive as worn ones), I think the difference you both felt was probably mostly down to the differing weight balance of the cars. All else being equal, rear-engined cars have a lighter, more responsive, front end as their centre of mass is closer to their turn centre ie closer to their rear axle). And much of what's left of the difference is probably down to the magic of rear-wheel steering, plus maybe some contribution from the GT3's smart e-LSD if the GT4 isn't given those same smarts.
It would be interesting to compare against a 997 GT3 too, as I suspect engine placement accounts for the lion's share of the difference rather than 4 wheel steering etc. A sharply turning car pretty much swivels about it's rear axle rather than around it's driver, unless things have gone wrong or it's doing a drift demo. That's because the rear tyres can't turn beyond a very limited dynamic tyre slip angle (though still useful for faster, more open bends) and won't go sideways without skidding. Four-wheel steering further improves things but the far bigger contribution to bringing the center of mass close to that turn centre is throwing the engine out to the opposite side of the rear axle to the rest of the car.
Snappier turn in is nice, and rearward weight bias also has acceleration and braking benefits, but the inherent tradeoffs (like snap lift-off oversteer, power-on understeer) are pretty big on-road, especially in a car expected to sometimes be driven by Mr or Mrs Average. Cue Porsche's 50 year 911 stability mission featuring everything from lead weights in front bumpers, through staggered wheelbases and tyre sizes, to PSM and torque vectoring e-diffs etc...
Racecars don't need to worry about Mr and Mrs Average as much of course, which is why something like 38-62 Front-Rear weight distribution is not at all unusual there - as it is pretty much optimal for track, where rules allow (F1, TRS, WEC LMP classes etc).
But racecars are also generally as light as possible while still getting the job done, and there the Cayman GT4 trumps the GT3 by being more than 6% lighter so it's not one way traffic either by those standards.
This comparison (997 GT3 vs Cayman R) covers most of those same bases more practically though it would mean a lot more on the same rubber (it was MPSCs versus RE050As):
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...11-gt3-feature
Here's another comparo (including 991GT3 vs GT4 both on MPSC2s. It's in German but the performance table tells most of it):
https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/8766...s-article.html
Anyone is lucky to drive such brilliant cars. Driving both on the same day has got be icing on the cake!
09-12-2016, 05:07 AM
Here's another comparo (including 991GT3 vs GT4, in German but the performance table tells most of it):
https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/8766...s-article.html
Anyone is lucky to drive such brilliant cars. Driving both on the same day has got be icing on the cake!
https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/8766...s-article.html
Anyone is lucky to drive such brilliant cars. Driving both on the same day has got be icing on the cake!
09-12-2016, 05:13 AM
Rennlist Member
Alfa Giulia QV factory Ring Lap vs M4 GTS Factory lap:
1). The M4 GTS runs on "R comp" MPSC2 tyres. You will note much less tyre squeal and better lateral grip. The Akfa driver is working at teh edge of the road tyres limits here and it makes for a very busy cockpit by comparison.
2). The Alfa Giulia QV does not have the rear spoiler of the M4 GTS. You can see it bounces alot more at the back!
3). The young Alfa test driver must have big *****!
1). The M4 GTS runs on "R comp" MPSC2 tyres. You will note much less tyre squeal and better lateral grip. The Akfa driver is working at teh edge of the road tyres limits here and it makes for a very busy cockpit by comparison.
2). The Alfa Giulia QV does not have the rear spoiler of the M4 GTS. You can see it bounces alot more at the back!
3). The young Alfa test driver must have big *****!
09-12-2016, 05:46 AM