Macca

Jake. I didnt pick it up on your original link you sent me as it was on iPhone but there is a distinct vibration through the car during the turn in and just before your spin. This must have been what you were referring to when you wondered if the tyre bead had slipped the rim prior causing the spin. It would be very unusual for that to happen especially when running the pressures you mentioned at that time. It could be the noise form the tyre scrubbing sideways as teh spin starts but I agree there is something that happened just then which needs explanation. IMO its a very unusual place for the car to loose grip at the rear, you have 4WD and although you are loaded towards the front of the car there you you are also loaded on the outside tyres (less so the rear). Turning in too fast at that point has caused me a few minor oversteer moments however but usually further up just after turn in where as here you were quite a way through the corner and already had lock applied. Its ia a mystery. My gut feel is it wasnt the bead (because thats a scary thing if its possible to happen).

996tnz

Personally, I blame my kerb fetish. I aim to drive as smoothly as my choice of line and speed allows but at ten tenths (and I hate doing too much less) I do get a bit of a workout.

Glad to see you and your car look to be OK Jake. And good on you for driving her up around your combined limits. Bit hard to analyse from just a video (rather than with my own in-car recollections of inputs etc) but here's a stab at at it anyway.

Your apparently intended line through there was better than mine (2KCup corrupted, overly defensive) but my early impression was that you were carrying quite some speed deep and wide on that lap. Early in the vid a little understeer and a blown apex a foot or two out from the inside looked to be the most likely result.

Perhaps you had a similar thought as you look to have curved her in more tightly in an effort to still nail the apex. Perhaps you might even have got away with that if she had taken a nicely weighted set but the in-car vid shows a bit of bobble with her being on about the third little bounce of a series at about that point. Previous lap vids may help show if that is input related or a track feature, but my early money would be on the track.

A smidge less speed at the point of sharpening the turn, a smidge smoother and more progressive turn in, a smidge more relaxation of the desired line at the apex, a smidge more settled suspension, a smidge less late phase trail braking - quite possibly one or more of these might have seen you around no more eventfully than the previous laps.

Haven't looked as much at what happened after the point where the rears started to let go, but I think you began to countersteer and may have even started to feed in a little stabilsing throttle before doing what 99.something percent of us drivers would do when she continued to yaw around and the inside wall hove into view through the windscreen - hit the brakes instead. That put paid to regaining grip out back but pretty much ensured you'd head in the safest direction, out wide where you could appreciate the effectiveness of the sand/gravel trap.

One of Graeme's Ice Driving instructors might well have given a confidently weighted dose of countersteering and accelerator when the back started to come loose and drifted the corner instead but a mistake on that front by one of us lesser mortals could have just as easily seen her loop around backwards into the pit exit wall for a much sadder ending.

More interested on your own take on it though Jake. Were you running an AIM too?

996tnz

Having recently debeaded a tyre, and - more importantly - knowing what tortures it endured during all the previous rallycross laps where it didn't debead, I'm with Macca on this as being very unlikely as a causal factor on a smooth track unless it had already lost a great deal of it's pressure prior. And there was none of the sudden side to side sloppiness evident in the vid that I felt when it happened to me. Going sideways through a sand trap could do it though.

And while I have sometimes had tyres rotate a few inches on the Turbo's rims under heavy braking or acceleration (bloody annoying because it throws them out of balance), this happened while carving a corner so I wouldn't think that a factor either (plus can't see in the vid the kind of sudden sharp little twitch of yaw that goes with that).

gt38088

yes Walt this is sort of what I was alluding to a couple pages back - the pro's know instinctively how much (opp) lock to wind on and just do it straight away, with gas on. Us mortals tend to need visual and bum feel confirmation as to how big the slide is and how much to wind on, then we are also late to reapply gas

Maxem

Hey, the torsion bar guys own the rights to the original flat six music. All subsequent models are just covers bands. Do 991's have that stereo system that plays an engine sound of your choice in the cabin?

996tnz

Macca can advise but I believe they have a special tube to pipe the natural engine sound into the cabin.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ined-tech-dept

On the fence with those, and don't like the fully fake ones on principle but actually found the Mk7 Golf GTi's soundaktor (reportedly a little speaker/transducer that uses the windshield for lower frequency resonance) less annoying than the Toyota 86's sound pipe (which seemed to put all the engine noise in one small spot just directly in front of the steering wheel).

John McM

I recall reading that the 2,200cc version was a special tone. However, for an everyday street exhaust note where you don't run around at 5,000 rpm nothing beats the 964, and it has so many options to tone it to the owners preference. Watch this space for Herman's cut out install Dave. I'll be bombing your corner with a vengeance.

nzskater

To truly appreciate the classic air cooled NA symphony, you need to own a Turbo for a while. The Dyson isn't the most endearing noise.

Thanks for the analysis Walt. The time between trying to push out of the spin and trying to stop before the wall was very short - when I over corrected I quickly realised that my only hope was to try take advantage of the kitty litter and slow down before the wall (thanks Chris, your lesson on "braking needed to slow down in sand" worked. If I hadn't jumped on the brakes after going off the track, I suspect the rear of the car would have ended up in the wall.

I've watched the videos too many times, and the noise you can hear when it breaks loose is now exaggerated, playing into my suspicions that something influenced my ability to control the car. I've not experienced the sudden loss of control like that before, but in actuality I suspect it was just that it's the first time I've truly run out of talent.

Just thankful the damage is minor and my only injuries to my ego. Apologies to all that had their last session cut off 3 mins early!

Macca

Nicely said Dave and I do agree. Not much I've heard with a WOF compares IMO to my 993 down the front straight at Manfield. LeMans 1996 GT1. But the early cars have a more detailed melody...

If the 991 GT3 had any sort of active sound symposier piping the engine into the cabin I wouldn't have bought it. But it has nothing. You do hear the banshee through the cabin especially in the upper reaches. Most who take a ride are s bit surprised expecting it to be relatively quiet in there.

Maxem

Didn't know about that. My fully loaded mk7 GTI is yet to get a spec check by me to see what it actually has. That said, when in sport mode it is a little louder in the exhaust dept and I assumed that it could be some exhaust flap working, or maybe as you say, some electronic sound trickery.

Maxem

Yes, didn't mean to exclude coil sprung air suckers, different and deeper tone but still very appealing. Some say the 964 was the best of the lot in stock form.

Maxem

That's a good time for the old SC.
With Pel's Aim borrowed for a session I am not cracking below 1.21 yet. I don't have any useful excuses either bugger it.
It was good to run with Pel and Mark for comparative purposes and the T sure does have a good turn of speed under power but not all pieces of the puzzle seem to be in place yet.
Loved the early morning session though, sun in your eyes through the sweeper and nice and cool.

Kiwi Carguy

So I've always said with Porsche history has shown us as far as values go and collectables history repeats. More so with the 911 range but not exclusive to it. Anything with the RS or CS moniker or limited numbers aka Sports Classic etc hold their value and over time can increase in value. So here's a "limited edition" Boxster "one of only 4 in the world"?? Sitting rather cheaply at $19990.... Future collectible or simply a dull 2.7 Boxster with some badges and not special enough?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used...056239662.htmr

Pel

I think it's 1 of 4 in NZ, they didn't do them anywhere else in the world? i.e. Porsche NZ did these??

Kiwi Carguy

Correct... was just quoting from the auction "Porsche general manager Grant Smith said the four $135,000 Boxsters will be the only legitimate James Dean models available in the world"

I'm not interested in buying it, just thought it was an interesting example of limited edition Porsche not always being collectable? or maybe it will be in years to come?? look at the 964!