Macca

Definitely is John. Im sure 2016 will present it. Maybe not Jan 11 as it will be too hot/humid for a full BHP attempt maybe, but by autumn you will have nailed it. Its just a mental attitude thing (though the car and teh conditions have to also be right on the day and this can be a hard trifector to get more than 3-4 times a year I guess).

John McM

Just pulled the trigger on the Tarrett Spring Plates. I suppose I have to do the Bilsteins to close out the suspension story and see sub 1.19 Sorry Paul this horse isn't drinking the PSS10 kool aid.

996tnz

Great tyres. Got to to put some on too one day.

To elaborate on my earlier comment, I reckon your lines through most corners are basically good and better than most of mine (though I'm probably with Macca re turn 10 as I'm starting to play with double apexing it too). You mentioned that you were driving within your comfort zone, and yes, it does look like there is scope to run similar lines in a more committed 10/10ths way as there is typically a fair bit of track still to spare. I'm not saying that you should do it of course, but just that there's maybe another potential second or maybe two to be had there if you still keep Herman out of the walls.

As for optimal lines they'll vary a bit depending on power-to-weight and handling characteristics (front-rear weight bias, driven wheels, 4WS and electronic gubbins, aero etc). You'll know Herman best but it will be interesting to see what thoughts other racers can contribute.

Macca

That's the great thing about learning to track an under powered NA 911 Walt. With 250-280 BHP and 250lbft you have to get the lines, turn in and braking points just right to be consistent and fast. It's amazing old cars like 964/993 can put in 16s (maybe even 15s) when you consider a lot of more powerful modern machinery struggles to keep up. Last outing at HD in Sept as the track got a bit drier I found the 993 lines helped a lot with the more powerful GT3. Still plenty in it but consistent high 13s felt good but in reality I was chasing scrappily driven 700 BHP/600lbft R35 GTR on over inflated road tyres and they were putting in mid 13s. A bit frustrating as Sometimes horsepower only helps hid a multitude of sins...

996tnz

Yes, and underpowered is relative of course. One of the great lessons from 2KCup is that circa 180 hp in a decent cheapie with the right driver can deliver 1:23s on 200 treadwear street tyres.

kiwi 911

Thats fine, PSS10's are only 1 option and only good as they are adjustable (helps with the 1 car for all thing you and Macca go on about....)

My issue is that the first thing you should do after DT is rebuild the suspension (revalue shocks, replace all rubbers and with some semi-solid) and get a good geo.

I understand you have a geo and rebuilt front shocks??, so just saying do the rubber and rear shocks?? - It's the easiest way to make your car go faster and I can't understand reluctance to finish??

John McM

Yes, the geo has been done three times, springs are new and front shocks were rebuilt after a mechanic incident that sheared the shaft. I've just done the control arm bushes so that was the last link in the front.

I will get the rear shocks looked at, which will include the bump stops. The spring plates are possibly gone, but hard to tell as many components can look knackered if they have torn or perished protective rubbers.

In any case I have sucked up the $1,600 price and bought Tarret Spring plates to start with a rebased platform and dial out some of the factory intended Weissach effect, which apparently works against track driving. That just leaves one piece of rubber as stock, but that part is well protected and looks fine.

Macca

Paul and I replace the rear sub frame carrier with solid mounts to remove the factory W effect entirely and also act as a minor tilt kit. That probably gives us both 1s over a similar car in track mostly from confidence as the car behaves consistently now in all situations. Cost of parts was under $800 but labour is 10 hrs!!

Get those rears checked and sorted for starters and start with Peter Alder giving us a nice track oriented geo. ultimately those shocks will hold you back on the track but they will be fine for the road. Coil overs transform the car as ourselves and others know. That said factory shocks can take you to an 18 I'm sure. Sway bars are also an important part of the handling equation. Only two things make my car quick on the track. The suspension (turn in etc) and a total lack of fear from the pilot :-) (not sure if latter is healthy but for a guy who lives in a sometimes volatile 3rd world nation and plays the markets to live off the track doesn't seem scary at all lol!). Definitely think you can cover the former not sure if the latter is a class A personality thing but either way it can be replicated.

peterC2S

+1 on the sway bars for a C4. Need to soften the front and stiffen the rear. Plenty of options to achieve.

John McM

Trailing arm bush, spring plate and shock mounts are it in a 964. Two out of three will be done.

I have a 22mm RUF sway bar in the back. Non adjustable but seems fine to me.

To be honest I think track time will be at a premium with so much time away so I won't have time for adjusting items on the two or three RSG track days I attend....as long as I am ahead of the air cooled pack.

nmaisey

John, I have a set of brand new bilstein HD rear shocks. I'll get part number for you tonight and let you know. pm me if keen.

John McM

Thanks Nathan, but I'll likely keep the (refurbed) rears as they are part of a RUF branded set from the '90s, basically revalved Bilstein HD. The shop that refurbs them is close and the cost should be reasonable this time as no shafts to manufacture.

gt38088

did a test day in the Targa car sunday at HD playday. I haven't been there much and so interested to see this discussion re lines, especially double apexing T10. When I think about this I compare it to Manfield double apex coming onto the front straight. So there you cut across the entry apex and right to the outside of the track braking hard all the way. T10 at HD is so wide that I guess you only brake to mid track and then cut back to the second apex. Are there any track reference points to line up the first apex and/or video on this thread? I suppose searching Macca's posts might be a start? Have you been using this line previously in vid Macca?

Test day revealed a few things that need attention so good to get that done but of course it all costs money ... grrr.

But on the driving front the Targa car never feels all that good on track. At HD not being familiar with lines and gears makes it a bit hard to be consistent especially given that my ratios are pretty close and running a restrictor strangles top end revs. A new mechanical front diff seems a good add - power on through a corner seems less understeery especially those long ones at HD

Macca

Graeme I single apex in the GT3 (have the power and chassis grip to maintain a fair bit of mid corner momentum plus that car enjoys to trail brake. In teh 993 I primarily double apex and I have an excellent video of my last time out with the 993 mid 2014 closely chasing Paul for a session in his 993 which gives you both lines, and infact two different styles in a number of places (his style no doubt quicker than mine!). Its a good clip around 3 mins (both laps around 1.17). No the fastest lap for either of us that day but a good line of site shows driver and controls plus car close in front and this gives some ideas other aircooled drivers can experiment with on track.

Im moving internet provider (over 512kb with throttle back!) and hope to have the new service up in the next week (wimax gear installed etc). I should then be able to post that footage to Youtube and put the link on here.

On a side note you would be using quite a different line at T10 in a 4WD Sunaru I should imagine. probably single apex it, sit left at 200m, then brake a bit from 170m turning in on trail braking then switching to trailing/partial throttle as you strat to trun in 2/3 way up the corner as slowly arcing the car on the edge of traction until finally the nose is close into the inside corner around 130m before the apex (which is late 2/3 of way around corner), by this time you will be over 1/2 throttle and as you get to the apex (rum right tyre over line if you like) then you can start getting on the gas whilst allowing the wheel to straighten in your hand - this will power you out to the left hand side of the track just before it straightens out where there is some run off and chicane, if you get it right you need to use all of that and will be on full gas just exiting it. Best vmax out of their in the GT3 is around 155 a few meters at the end of the Chicane. Neil gave me a few pointers for that in the GT3 and it works good. Hooking it up well from mid corner in T10 and getting good traction under full throttle on the exit will give you best vMax on the straight. However with your gearing and resrtictor I suspect that Vmax probably wont be much higher than 220 kmph GPS. Its an uphill straight so saps some energy. As you say set upf for Targa and track quite different with roll bar and shock stiffness, tire and camber etc. Tony (Playday) runs a track oriented WRX similar year to yours there and I think he gets into the mid 15s there IIRC.

996tnz

Graeme, I play with that line at 12:18 and 18:10 in that previous race video, but a better example of it can be seen at 6:30 and 13:28 in this vid for instance (from the fast grid winner), though like me he only seems to run it occasionally:


You give up some mid-corner speed for a faster entry and exit, as well as running a tighter overall line.

Mid-track is probably a bit far to go out. Similar to the last example above, Racing Ray too only seems to swing out by a few car widths before arcing back in to re-apex.