Any Rennlisters from New Zealand?
09-28-2015, 03:01 AM
Rennlist Member
Macca, I think the RS60's gear ratios for second and third were perfect for the conditions and the wide torque band worked well too. I need to do a weekend in Lola for a comparison. Lola being 25 years old and G50 will have much slower gear changes. I noticed on the video how quick your changes were. No doubt a result of your gear box rebuild.
Paul you missed out badly but I hope you're in love with your new SC. Need a bra for her and bring her next time unless she's allergic to cow **** of course.
Paul you missed out badly but I hope you're in love with your new SC. Need a bra for her and bring her next time unless she's allergic to cow **** of course.
Lola's gearing will be perfect. The Issue with the 6 spd vs the 5 speed at the track is the same as on 25-35 kmph corners on the road at speed. Your 2nd is between my 2nd & 3rd - perfecto! The only downside is the peak torque/hp spread. The drop between gears becomes greater. On the road this isn't likely an issue. However I was speaking to someone today who knew alot about the 964/993 and they said the 3.8L upgrade is very worthwhile on the 964 as the additional 30lbft torque gives benefit to the gearing. The same for the 993 but less so.
You'll be surprised with the 964 Doug. It will be quicker than you can imagine. However its very much a mental thing too. Once you have the confidence you can just pick it up by the scruff f the neck and fling it around. I'm starting to think the new cars suffer from being over tyred and their chassis too cloaked in electronic skull-duggery to be driven quickly on tight B roads and some tracks.
Changing gear by hand isn't the "Magnus Opus" many proclaim it to be. Much hoo ha about the stick. The connection isnt the stick of course, its the clutch. The clutch just gives you another method to feed and measure the power. Thats the involvement part. However when comparing new with old I put that fourth to chassis, weight and size if its fun you are after. The older cars have their advantages in all these areas. For NZ roads the newer cars and GT3s have too stiff chassis which gives less adjust-ability through the brakes and they are over tyres meaning the edge of traction is just next to the end of the road. A softer chassis loads up slower and gives before the tyres giving plenty of time. Weight loading the older cars at pace is the trick - tap the brakes to load up the weight over the front wheels before turning in, or trail brake to throttle application a bit going in hot to gather up the chassis as it slides and then hook it up with the rear wheels. I took Chris & John for a run and I think they will agree that although the speed could be a bit disorientating and the need to use extra areas of the road necessary (with corner to corner visibility) the chassis felt very "alive" and compliant and there was little in the way of concern for traction or pace even with the extra weight and low engine output. The GT3 is quicker between the corners but a little inert as with stiffness it struggles to find traction in each corner and telegraphs this less fluently. Its also a large car relatively to place on the road. The older GT3s are better (smaller and less electronic stuff) but they are also stuff and lack compliance. You can pilot them quickly but you are not as connected to the pavement. they were afterall built for the track where picking up the subtle signature of the smooth ashelt is the name of the game.
My take after having the opportunity to get to know those roads on 3 subsequent visits in the last 9 months, 2 with the GT3 (admittedly the roads were foreign first time around) and now with the 993 is that the 993 was the better tool for the job. Improvement? Apart from the driver who is probably nearing the limit of his questionable skill (basically a rank amateur with brass *****) the perfect "911" would be my 993 with 30lbft more across the range (or a longer 2nd gear set) and a PDK-S transmission as fitted to the 991 GT3. Heresy Im sure many will say but I would give away the feel through the clutch (lets face it we were staying in 3rd gear for 75% of the time and I think on the run form Bland Bay I change gears only 6 times in 5 mins after the first hairpin, 3/4th only with maybe a brief moment in 5th on the straight to give the valve train a break.Id trade the MT for PDK-S in that chassis for the reduction in the chance of a poor shift upsetting the chassis (particularly in the wet) and for mechanical sympathy. An engine that screamed beyond 7000 rpm would be lovely too but that's probably another subject and the 3.6 rpm limit did not distract from the fun.
I really valued the ability to run a direct comparison getting in 5-6 hours on the 993 chassis in identical conditions as previously with the GT3 with a similar mindset. I went in thinking the 993 would be a slower and less confidence inspiring platform but came out with the opposite being true.
Today I drove the 993 to CCS to pick up the GT3. I drove the GT3 home. After 1100km over the weekend in the 993 it was an interesting moment. The 993 maybe better at 8/10 on the tightest NZ B roads but the 991 GT3 is a much more comfortable place to be ha ha! I must be getting old but it felt nice in the heated buckets during a hail storm in Newmarket in the traffic. The PDK is a wonderful thing as it can be used in slush mode during bumper to bumper commutes. The car does seem much larger though. The most obvious plus is the engine. The 991 GT3 is all about that engine IMO. Questions of durability/longevity aside I personally believe Porsche will never make again a flat 6 that revs to 9000 rpm. Its not just the last 500 but the urgency and speed plus sound it makes on its way anywhere above 7000. its a lovely thing.
Can I change my comment above and say the perfect 993 would be one with a 991 GT3 engine? I know. Greedy!
09-28-2015, 03:21 AM
Rennlist Member
The 3.2 Carrera is not dialled in for those sorts of twisties mate - you need to take Lola to give me a remote chance............
09-28-2015, 03:29 AM
Rennlist Member
Hummm...............must refrain from visiting Elephant Racing web site.
The harsh $ depreciation is the main thing stopping me at the moment hitting buy now on the restoration sport 2 package........
The harsh $ depreciation is the main thing stopping me at the moment hitting buy now on the restoration sport 2 package........
09-28-2015, 03:30 AM
Rennlist Member
Hummm...............must refrain from visiting Elephant Racing web site.
The harsh $ depreciation is the main thing stopping me at the moment hitting buy now on the restoration sport 2 package........
The harsh $ depreciation is the main thing stopping me at the moment hitting buy now on the restoration sport 2 package........
09-28-2015, 03:52 AM
Rennlist Member
I was the 'town bike' for the weekend, riding shotgun in the 993, 987 & 997.
Each was quite a different experience.
993: Came into its own in the twisties at speed, where it carved curves like a scalpel, but a challenging ride at slower speeds. Macca, how you managed the road trip with Jo in the car is mind boggling. A weapon but focused beyond DD duty. Noisy outside but no so much inside.
987: Twinkle toes Hanna seemed to relish the heel and toe changes into the slow corners. Engine turbine smooth and enough acceleration to keep the others honest. My only thought was a receding hairline won't cope long in Summer with the top down. A good exhaust note with PSE.
997: A visibly bigger car, which moves when the hammer is down. It seemed stiffer than the other cars. Maybe the RS3 tyres were putting more though the chassis? Quietest of the bunch. I suspect it would be the sleeper at the track.
Each was quite a different experience.
993: Came into its own in the twisties at speed, where it carved curves like a scalpel, but a challenging ride at slower speeds. Macca, how you managed the road trip with Jo in the car is mind boggling. A weapon but focused beyond DD duty. Noisy outside but no so much inside.
987: Twinkle toes Hanna seemed to relish the heel and toe changes into the slow corners. Engine turbine smooth and enough acceleration to keep the others honest. My only thought was a receding hairline won't cope long in Summer with the top down. A good exhaust note with PSE.
997: A visibly bigger car, which moves when the hammer is down. It seemed stiffer than the other cars. Maybe the RS3 tyres were putting more though the chassis? Quietest of the bunch. I suspect it would be the sleeper at the track.
09-28-2015, 04:01 AM
Rennlist Member
Overall, I don't think the air cooled give away much in top speed to the newer cars and I'm very happy with the thought of taking Herman up for the next Douggie run.
09-28-2015, 04:31 AM
Rennlist Member
I was the 'town bike' for the weekend, riding shotgun in the 993, 987 & 997.
Each was quite a different experience.
993: Came into its own in the twisties at speed, where it carved curves like a scalpel, but a challenging ride at slower speeds. Macca, how you managed the road trip with Jo in the car is mind boggling. A weapon but focused beyond DD duty. Noisy outside but no so much inside.
987: Twinkle toes Hanna seemed to relish the heel and toe changes into the slow corners. Engine turbine smooth and enough acceleration to keep the others honest. My only thought was a receding hairline won't cope long in Summer with the top down. A good exhaust note with PSE.
997: A visibly bigger car, which moves when the hammer is down. It seemed stiffer than the other cars. Maybe the RS3 tyres were putting more though the chassis? Quietest of the bunch. I suspect it would be the sleeper at the track.
Each was quite a different experience.
993: Came into its own in the twisties at speed, where it carved curves like a scalpel, but a challenging ride at slower speeds. Macca, how you managed the road trip with Jo in the car is mind boggling. A weapon but focused beyond DD duty. Noisy outside but no so much inside.
987: Twinkle toes Hanna seemed to relish the heel and toe changes into the slow corners. Engine turbine smooth and enough acceleration to keep the others honest. My only thought was a receding hairline won't cope long in Summer with the top down. A good exhaust note with PSE.
997: A visibly bigger car, which moves when the hammer is down. It seemed stiffer than the other cars. Maybe the RS3 tyres were putting more though the chassis? Quietest of the bunch. I suspect it would be the sleeper at the track.
And yes the 993 is too tiring for travelling for the SITT again - Jo prefers the GT3. Its the price you pay for it being "scalpel sharp" I'm afraid. The seats probably don't help much either. The rattles and creaks (cage, seats etc) on the chip seal can drive you a bit mad. I find the GT3 to be Range Rover comfortable by comparison. The 993 is for high days, holidays, tracks, Targas and B road blasts.
09-28-2015, 05:18 AM
Rennlist Member
09-28-2015, 05:29 AM
Rennlist Member
Paul. That's what the GT3 is for! Keep the 3.2 entirely stock IMO. You paid a premium for a low mileage NZ example I wouldn't bugger with the formula apart from new factory bushes and some preventative stuff. The future value in this car is 100% entirely stock. Every dollar you spend becomes $2 as you remove a $1 of desirability. The 3.2 is a PCNZ car. The GT3 is an RSG car. Enough said :-)
09-28-2015, 05:32 AM
Rennlist Member
Paul. That's what the GT3 is for! Keep the 3.2 entirely stock IMO. You paid a premium for a low mileage NZ example I wouldn't bugger with the formula apart from new factory bushes and some preventative stuff. The future value in this car is 100% entirely stock. Every dollar you spend becomes $2 as you remove a $1 of desirability. The 3.2 is a PCNZ car. The GT3 is an RSG car. Enough said :-)
