Any Rennlisters from New Zealand?
06-04-2015, 06:59 PM
Pro
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Napier, New Zealand
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A good article on a car (with Porsche ties) thats dear to my heart:
http://www.world964owners.com/#!964-...f235f8195e9f76
http://www.world964owners.com/#!964-...f235f8195e9f76
06-04-2015, 07:35 PM
Rennlist Member
thing is when upgrading certain components out of a system there are always consequential impacts on the rest of the system. I looked at taking out the brake booster on my rally car to get more feel in the system (outright braking power not the issue) but then would need greater leverage from the pedal in order to have acceptable effort levels. only 2 ways to get more leverage - either bigger master cylinder or go to a pedal box with greater leverage or both. with a bigger master cylinder and bigger piston diameter you get more dead pedal movement at the top of the travel which most ppl don't want. Again the negative consequential impact. In the end I haven't done anything
06-04-2015, 08:17 PM
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Kapiti - New Zealand
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Sounds positive....
Hampton Downs
19 mins ·
Tony Quinn gives us the low-down on his vision for Hampton Downs
Quinn excited by Hampton Downs’ potential to complement Highlands.
Tony Quinn, the owner of Highlands Motorsport Park, is excited about seeing the full potential of his recently-acquired Hampton Downs facility realised over the next 16 months, and how it will complement his existing motorsport venue in Central Otago.
Quinn confirms that the purchase of the north Waikato race track and its surrounding 150 hectares was completed on 2 June as scheduled and is already progressing plans to undertake a number of projects which will see the facility completed as per its original plans and re-launched with a major international event in November 2016.
“I’ve been sharing some of my plans with Hampton’s managing director Tony Roberts, operations manager Gary Stirling, and business and marketing manager Claire Gullidge, who are all staying in their existing roles for at least six months,” Quinn says. “What I’ve asked them to do over the next week or so is write down all the things we should be doing that will make a practical benefit to the park, its operation, and look and feel, so we can get all these things going.”
Quinn then intends to have tender documents produced fairly quickly for the bigger projects, such as the construction of corporate suites and a control tower above the pit-lane garages, a go-kart track, a second skid pan and a track extension which will add a kilometre to the existing 2.8km layout, so quotes can be obtained and contracts issued over the winter for work to start in spring.
“There are four or five different projects which can all be tackled by different contractors at the same time without affecting the day-to-day track operation. There’ll be a flurry of activity when spring sets in and I expect a fair bit of finished work by Christmas and into early New Year.
“There are a couple of important things I want people to be clear on. Firstly, I don’t want people to confuse Hampton Downs with Highlands. Highlands is a totally separate business model to Hampton’s – Highlands is a tourist venue that caters to tourists year round with a small number of high profile motorsport events each year. Hampton Downs is an absolute flat-out race track. It’s used 330 days of the year for racing, corporate days, testing and the like. That will continue.
“Secondly, the track is absolutely open for business now and will continue to be; nothing’s going to change. Anyone that’s got a booking now, that’s fine. All the projects we’re doing are outside the normal day-to-day operation of the track, but people will start to see the new facilities being completed and used as we head into next year and the GT extravaganza we have planned as the park’s re-launch in November 2016.”
Quinn stresses his desire to complete Hampton Downs the way it was originally intended to create a world-class motorsport park that complements Highlands.
“I was excited, like everyone else, when Hampton Downs was first talked about and Chris Watson and Tony Roberts embarked on this ambitious plan to build a fantastic facility on the outskirts of Auckland, in the rolling hills of North Waikato. It seemed like an idyllic project within easy reach of Auckland, Tauranga and Hamilton. I want to finish it properly and it’s going to be an exciting project.”
“In about 16 months’ time it’s going to be a truly fantastic facility to visit and there’s no doubt that Hampton Downs and Highlands are going to be the two best tracks in New Zealand. If we have any international categories here, it would be sensible to expose them to fans at both Hampton and Highlands.
“Already we’ve told our Highlands’ members that they are most welcome to use Hampton Downs as one of their membership privileges, and we will also introduce memberships at Hampton Downs that will give members certain privileges including access to a pretty fancy members’ lounge where members and their partners can mix and mingle and enjoy the premier status of being a member.
“There’s another thing to remember – Claire has a great saying that Hampton Downs is a friendly track. Everyone’s got different things that they want to do at the circuit, and the role of Hampton’s staff and the facility itself is be friendly and accommodate what people want to do.
“We just ran a competition in Australia amongst our 900 staff asking them to give us some ideas what we should do with some of the facilities – it was amazing, we got about 40 fantastic ideas that we’re now working on. We want to listen to people’s suggestions for Hampton Downs, so what we’re saying to people and to staff tell us what you think would be a good idea, what would work, if it’s practical and doable, we’ll do it.”
More news about the developments at Hampton Downs will be shared on the park’s website www.hamptondowns.com and Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/hamptondowns in coming months.
The image shows Hampton Downs’ co-founder Tony Roberts (left) with new owner Tony Quinn.
Hampton Downs
19 mins ·
Tony Quinn gives us the low-down on his vision for Hampton Downs
Quinn excited by Hampton Downs’ potential to complement Highlands.
Tony Quinn, the owner of Highlands Motorsport Park, is excited about seeing the full potential of his recently-acquired Hampton Downs facility realised over the next 16 months, and how it will complement his existing motorsport venue in Central Otago.
Quinn confirms that the purchase of the north Waikato race track and its surrounding 150 hectares was completed on 2 June as scheduled and is already progressing plans to undertake a number of projects which will see the facility completed as per its original plans and re-launched with a major international event in November 2016.
“I’ve been sharing some of my plans with Hampton’s managing director Tony Roberts, operations manager Gary Stirling, and business and marketing manager Claire Gullidge, who are all staying in their existing roles for at least six months,” Quinn says. “What I’ve asked them to do over the next week or so is write down all the things we should be doing that will make a practical benefit to the park, its operation, and look and feel, so we can get all these things going.”
Quinn then intends to have tender documents produced fairly quickly for the bigger projects, such as the construction of corporate suites and a control tower above the pit-lane garages, a go-kart track, a second skid pan and a track extension which will add a kilometre to the existing 2.8km layout, so quotes can be obtained and contracts issued over the winter for work to start in spring.
“There are four or five different projects which can all be tackled by different contractors at the same time without affecting the day-to-day track operation. There’ll be a flurry of activity when spring sets in and I expect a fair bit of finished work by Christmas and into early New Year.
“There are a couple of important things I want people to be clear on. Firstly, I don’t want people to confuse Hampton Downs with Highlands. Highlands is a totally separate business model to Hampton’s – Highlands is a tourist venue that caters to tourists year round with a small number of high profile motorsport events each year. Hampton Downs is an absolute flat-out race track. It’s used 330 days of the year for racing, corporate days, testing and the like. That will continue.
“Secondly, the track is absolutely open for business now and will continue to be; nothing’s going to change. Anyone that’s got a booking now, that’s fine. All the projects we’re doing are outside the normal day-to-day operation of the track, but people will start to see the new facilities being completed and used as we head into next year and the GT extravaganza we have planned as the park’s re-launch in November 2016.”
Quinn stresses his desire to complete Hampton Downs the way it was originally intended to create a world-class motorsport park that complements Highlands.
“I was excited, like everyone else, when Hampton Downs was first talked about and Chris Watson and Tony Roberts embarked on this ambitious plan to build a fantastic facility on the outskirts of Auckland, in the rolling hills of North Waikato. It seemed like an idyllic project within easy reach of Auckland, Tauranga and Hamilton. I want to finish it properly and it’s going to be an exciting project.”
“In about 16 months’ time it’s going to be a truly fantastic facility to visit and there’s no doubt that Hampton Downs and Highlands are going to be the two best tracks in New Zealand. If we have any international categories here, it would be sensible to expose them to fans at both Hampton and Highlands.
“Already we’ve told our Highlands’ members that they are most welcome to use Hampton Downs as one of their membership privileges, and we will also introduce memberships at Hampton Downs that will give members certain privileges including access to a pretty fancy members’ lounge where members and their partners can mix and mingle and enjoy the premier status of being a member.
“There’s another thing to remember – Claire has a great saying that Hampton Downs is a friendly track. Everyone’s got different things that they want to do at the circuit, and the role of Hampton’s staff and the facility itself is be friendly and accommodate what people want to do.
“We just ran a competition in Australia amongst our 900 staff asking them to give us some ideas what we should do with some of the facilities – it was amazing, we got about 40 fantastic ideas that we’re now working on. We want to listen to people’s suggestions for Hampton Downs, so what we’re saying to people and to staff tell us what you think would be a good idea, what would work, if it’s practical and doable, we’ll do it.”
More news about the developments at Hampton Downs will be shared on the park’s website www.hamptondowns.com and Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/hamptondowns in coming months.
The image shows Hampton Downs’ co-founder Tony Roberts (left) with new owner Tony Quinn.
06-04-2015, 08:17 PM
Rennlist Member
Putting a larger GT3 Master Cylinder on the R is a way to get more old school Porsche feel to the brakes, however it doesn't improve the braking performance and after seeing how good it is at is when carving the corners I'm leaving mine as is. If I want switch like brakes I just drive the Golf GTI.
06-04-2015, 09:15 PM
Braking
Counterintuitively perhaps, the physical friction between two surfaces depends on their material composition and on the applied load but - as Leonardo da Vinci is credited with discovering - not on their surface areas. So pad size by itself does little to increase grip. And that greater mechanical leverage really just replicates the effect of changing the master cylinder or brake bias.
The biggest benefit from 'bigger brakes' is their ability to act as a larger heat sink (the same amount of heat but going into more pad and metal so they don't get as hot on corner entry) that also has a larger surface area (particularly with bigger rotors) to transfer that heat away to the atmosphere, so they lose more heat in preparation for the next corner's braking. So the primary benefit of bigger brakes is better fade resistance when worked intensively over sustained periods, as well as a longer service life as they have more material to start with and will run cooler. Some upgrade kits have additional benefits too - like the ceramic pistons in the Cup calipers which better insulate brake fluid from the heat of the pads.
With brake pad compounds it is admittedly a little more complex than Leonardo's classical friction model as 'viscuous friction' from the shear forces on interchange of a thin film of pad material between rotor and pad also makes up a component of the braking force - especially around and above the ideal operating temperature of the system - but, even so, doubling the pad area won't significantly increase the brake force.
I had promised Dave a while back not to get tribological but since this science of rubbing surfaces applies variously to braking, tyre grip, and engine/gearbox wear protection here's a starter link for anyone tempted to poke into it a bit:
https://www.bruker.com/fileadmin/use...9-Jan-2013.pdf
For my own car, I'm still trying to avoid going to bigger brakes if possible (LVV certing requirement). SRF fluid and endurance pads have made a big difference already, and I'll probably fit some GT3 brake ducts soon to help keep the rotor temperatures down a bit. I also have Cup ducts to hand too just in case they prove to be needed for some endurance type event, but they would soon be scraped off on the street so are being kept in reserve.
06-04-2015, 09:25 PM
I liked the look of my brother's Passat until I drove it and found it impossible to modulate the brakes on - they'd immediately grab 10 or 20 percent. Though it was faulty but the dealer said they all did that (brake assist 'feature'), so my brother returned it and got a BMW 530 instead. Hopefully the VW enthusiast versions are not as mullered, but have been very wary of any VW product since, and am really hoping they don't stuff up Porsche the same way. Not sure if VW had a hand in the 911 handbrake lever deletion or if it was an own goal, but that's already a bridge too far in my book.
Jamie - thanks for the update on HD. Actually all sounding quite promising!
06-04-2015, 10:51 PM
Racer
You're probably right about the change in brake bias and the benefit of fitting weaker pads at the rear but if there is a bias change it will mostly be because larger rear rotors allow the pads to sit wider out from the hub, giving them better leverage than they'd have with a smaller diameter rotor. That may have been what you had in mind with the 'larger swept area' anyway I guess, but for those not familiar with it already I thought I should point out that just bigger pads don't actually grip much harder at all.
Counterintuitively perhaps, the physical friction between two surfaces depends on their material composition and on the applied load but - as Leonardo da Vinci is credited with discovering - not on their surface areas. So pad size by itself does little to increase grip. And that greater mechanical leverage really just replicates the effect of changing the master cylinder or brake bias.
The biggest benefit from 'bigger brakes' is their ability to act as a larger heat sink (the same amount of heat but going into more pad and metal so they don't get as hot on corner entry) that also has a larger surface area (particularly with bigger rotors) to transfer that heat away to the atmosphere, so they lose more heat in preparation for the next corner's braking. So the primary benefit of bigger brakes is better fade resistance when worked intensively over sustained periods, as well as a longer service life as they have more material to start with and will run cooler. Some upgrade kits have additional benefits too - like the ceramic pistons in the Cup calipers which better insulate brake fluid from the heat of the pads.
With brake pad compounds it is admittedly a little more complex than Leonardo's classical friction model as 'viscuous friction' from the shear forces on interchange of a thin film of pad material between rotor and pad also makes up a component of the braking force - especially around and above the ideal operating temperature of the system - but, even so, doubling the pad area won't significantly increase the brake force.
I had promised Dave a while back not to get tribological but since this science of rubbing surfaces applies variously to braking, tyre grip, and engine/gearbox wear protection here's a starter link for anyone tempted to poke into it a bit:
https://www.bruker.com/fileadmin/use...9-Jan-2013.pdf
For my own car, I'm still trying to avoid going to bigger brakes if possible (LVV certing requirement). SRF fluid and endurance pads have made a big difference already, and I'll probably fit some GT3 brake ducts soon to help keep the rotor temperatures down a bit. I also have Cup ducts to hand too just in case they prove to be needed for some endurance type event, but they would soon be scraped off on the street so are being kept in reserve.
Counterintuitively perhaps, the physical friction between two surfaces depends on their material composition and on the applied load but - as Leonardo da Vinci is credited with discovering - not on their surface areas. So pad size by itself does little to increase grip. And that greater mechanical leverage really just replicates the effect of changing the master cylinder or brake bias.
The biggest benefit from 'bigger brakes' is their ability to act as a larger heat sink (the same amount of heat but going into more pad and metal so they don't get as hot on corner entry) that also has a larger surface area (particularly with bigger rotors) to transfer that heat away to the atmosphere, so they lose more heat in preparation for the next corner's braking. So the primary benefit of bigger brakes is better fade resistance when worked intensively over sustained periods, as well as a longer service life as they have more material to start with and will run cooler. Some upgrade kits have additional benefits too - like the ceramic pistons in the Cup calipers which better insulate brake fluid from the heat of the pads.
With brake pad compounds it is admittedly a little more complex than Leonardo's classical friction model as 'viscuous friction' from the shear forces on interchange of a thin film of pad material between rotor and pad also makes up a component of the braking force - especially around and above the ideal operating temperature of the system - but, even so, doubling the pad area won't significantly increase the brake force.
I had promised Dave a while back not to get tribological but since this science of rubbing surfaces applies variously to braking, tyre grip, and engine/gearbox wear protection here's a starter link for anyone tempted to poke into it a bit:
https://www.bruker.com/fileadmin/use...9-Jan-2013.pdf
For my own car, I'm still trying to avoid going to bigger brakes if possible (LVV certing requirement). SRF fluid and endurance pads have made a big difference already, and I'll probably fit some GT3 brake ducts soon to help keep the rotor temperatures down a bit. I also have Cup ducts to hand too just in case they prove to be needed for some endurance type event, but they would soon be scraped off on the street so are being kept in reserve.
06-04-2015, 10:59 PM
Rennlist Member
Yip it's all about efficiency. The same age old adage applies. You can't satisfy all three quadrants so it's a balance between Cost, performance, reliability/durability.
Piston size probably has some impact on swept area and coverage and having a larger annular to transfer the heat is never a bad thing. You can become a bit too efficient in terms of ducting (conditions dependant) as Graeme has found on the Targa car. There's always a work around however.
In terms of brake feel the 993 is the best car I have driven in this regard and I suspect the 964 is almost identical at least in C2 guise. I've never driven a 4WD 911 with the exception of the 993TT.
Thanks for the HD news Jamie. Most of that is consistent with what Peter M mentioned to me a few months back although no doubt it's still a moving target. The existing pits and garages look safe according to that press announcement, I guess the 64k question is where will the new apartments go if they are to be built?
Let's hope HD remains viable for Playdays. I see they have a few dates before NITT available but at this stage it doesn't look like RSG will be taking any. I guess it's winter and there are also PCNZ bent sprint dates coming up which should satiate the hardcore...
Piston size probably has some impact on swept area and coverage and having a larger annular to transfer the heat is never a bad thing. You can become a bit too efficient in terms of ducting (conditions dependant) as Graeme has found on the Targa car. There's always a work around however.
In terms of brake feel the 993 is the best car I have driven in this regard and I suspect the 964 is almost identical at least in C2 guise. I've never driven a 4WD 911 with the exception of the 993TT.
Thanks for the HD news Jamie. Most of that is consistent with what Peter M mentioned to me a few months back although no doubt it's still a moving target. The existing pits and garages look safe according to that press announcement, I guess the 64k question is where will the new apartments go if they are to be built?
Let's hope HD remains viable for Playdays. I see they have a few dates before NITT available but at this stage it doesn't look like RSG will be taking any. I guess it's winter and there are also PCNZ bent sprint dates coming up which should satiate the hardcore...
06-05-2015, 12:12 AM
Rennlist Member
A good article on a car (with Porsche ties) thats dear to my heart:
http://www.world964owners.com/#!964-...f235f8195e9f76
http://www.world964owners.com/#!964-...f235f8195e9f76
06-05-2015, 05:33 AM
Rennlist Member
06-05-2015, 05:33 AM
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Kaikoura, New Zealand
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From elsewhere on R.L: a gentleman (described by no less than one A N Lauda as" a genius on wheels")on a relaxed Sunday drive, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTfNOMlQiRQ#t=68
As apposed to his former work environment:
Apologies for the crap music & razor add.
As apposed to his former work environment:
06-05-2015, 06:14 AM
Rennlist Member
6h20m to read this on the way home. I hope they are kind on the R.