kiwi 911

Thanks Walt - looking forward to doing it in power and comfort..........

Macca

Thanks for the article John. I dont see running a 996 Cup car as overly onorus on the budget assuming its be purchased with a low hour engine and gearbox. 60-70 hours on the engine is 3-4 years of "Bridgestone" series including qualifying and set up days. I think the increased consumable costs will make sense to most, increase the lap times and speeds and these things wear more quickly...

Macca

Is it? Assuming that includes accommodation for two and incidentals it seems fair to me. They say the '86 series is similar cost but does include some global support.

We mus remember that the majority of racers in the PCNZ (or at least those I have met and spoken with over the year - maybe a dozen or more) are business men and entrepreneurs. They have sponsorship deals with their suppliers (vendors) and they advertise their own businesses. If you have a business with reasonable cashflow you would be quite surprised to find racing isnt quite as expensive to your after tax pocket as you may thing....caveat = a good accountant.

So for a PAYE yes 30K a year means anyone on less than 250-300Kpa is going to have to go for cheaper rooms at the Sheraton Denaru for the annual holiday with the kids, wife and Kohi neighbours. But I think relatively few "salaried" participants take racing to the used Cup car level unless they happen to be executive team on listed companies with sizeable packages and benefits or aforementioned business owners.

Of course I may be entirely wrong as its a long time since I studied the economics of the proverbial middle class NZer!

gt38088

Anything that revs to 8k revs is going to need regular rebuilds if used to the max. There is no way my Targa car will do 70 hours between engine builds. If you ignore touring where the wear is minimal at road speeds I would be getting 10 Targa's per rebuild at that rate!

kiwi 911

(Deleted)

Pel

Suggests middle class NZ income is keeping pace with Auckland property inflation? I wonder what the same household income was 5 years ago.

Pel

Actually, wrong forum

Macca

Obviously I caught this post too late (i.e. after it had content) :-P

PEL. If the average middle class Auckland household isnt earning 250K pa then Im not sure how the mortgages are getting paid. If the OCR heads north by 0.50-1.25 pips over the next few years they arent going to become easier to pay either....

John McM

Macca, I have no doubt there is a demographic with big mortgages, but equally there is a demographic with no debt. Coming back from overseas I was surprised at the 'new' mindset amongst some of the mortgage belt I met. I have always seen the end game as mortgage free before retirement saving starts. I realised that many see debt free as the day they downsize or divorce.

Back to Porsche racing costs. I believe a 944 averages $25 ~ $30k per annum, assuming no accident damage. A leading 944 campaigner could easily double that. A 997 cup car could start at $50k per annum and double that again to lead.

A 996 cup car as a track day weapon is an interesting thought. I wonder if they can be run 'on condition' like private planes for non race applications? The hours situation is similar to planes or more particularly helicopters. The Robinsons are valued on that basis, you pay for the hull and the hours left.

Macca

I think the Robbi story is a perfect analogy for a new 991 GT3 RSR Cup car. Essentially the factory are leasing you the car!

Regards using Cup Car as track day car, alll depends how hard you drive the car but there is no doubt its a viable idea and over time would likely be no more expensive than running a 964 at the track. Of course youd need to tow it there which could become a pain.

kiwi 911

Sorry Macca, Pel and John - I deleted the comment as talking houses, incomes and mortgages gets off track.........

But in a nut shell I said that $250K is a now a middle class income for Suburban Auckland and Wellington, which Pel replied that incomes seem to be keeping pace with Auckland house price inflation..........

I also said that the demographic of a Cup Car owner in NZ is someone on the wrong side of 50, and more likely 60-something, and that Porsche Racing is an 'old mans' sport with Peter probably the youngest one out there........

John McM

Yes, saw the original thread and agree, although I imagine the middle class is a narrow demographic at that household income. Maybe not in Auckland Central, but further out I imagine they dream of that.

gt38088

Be interesting to see what Tim J. view on Targa was having run in a very nice v8 M3 (vs Porsche summer racing) after not having run for a few years - since owning the Boxster that George has now

kiwi 911

^^^ 964 Engine and gearbox won't set you back $45K to rebuild and need to be done every 30-40 race hours to maintain the cars value..........

30-40 race hours = once a year if you did the enduros and Porsche Race series.

Throw in RSG track days, NZGT and a few test days - and you could be rebuidling a GT3 engine every 6 months if always driven hard.

The only way I see a Cup Car as being economic would be to drive it 7/10th's - i.e. reduce the rev limiter by 1,500 RPM.

I am shooting from the hip - but I think you would get 2-3 years out of a fresh 964 engine before needing a rebuild?

gt38088

The 911 running in gt2 spec in Targa a few years ago has now been rebuilt using a cup car shell and is road reg for Targa. I also spoke to the guy running the blue 911 cup spec RHD on Targa - the one that had been on trademe recently. Certainly having fun...