Veloce Raptor

Mike, everything you say is true. But it sort of flies in the face of thinly veiled arrogance such as "Since I might be in a hurry How easy he survives the corner depends on his consideration of the passing car. If you make the passing car FORCE the pass both will be slower and someone may end up in the grass or worse."

Veloce Raptor

George, we are in violent agreement over this. I have agreed with this point again & again. But wanting (in your mind) to punt someone for being what you would consider discourteous, and actually doing so, are 2 different things.

The important point is that, despite your frustration, you kept your emotions under control & drove better, utilizing the slower car's weaknesses to get by.

Those who cannot control their emotions & have an entitlement mentality, and who think "you better get out of the way or you will end up in the grass or worse" need to find another sport.

}{arlequin

wow.... some of you guys are dicks. are you friggin' kidding me??? what are you- doctors, attorneys, ceo's, business owners?? got some cash money yo and decided to race? unless you race for a salary, professionally, you have no business even implying that 'people are in your way' and that you'll help them make room... or whatever way you want to phrase it.

sorry that those other lapped drivers don't have your bank accounts, nor free time, to have raced for as long as your illustrious 'careers', so they're not up to speed on your lapping preferences what, you can't tell that you are the one gaining on a lapped car?? you can't plan ahead? you could just as well plan to have the guy behind you boxed in by using the backmarkers...

to even suggest an inkling of the concept that just surfaced here means that maybe some of you have forgotten that not everyone is in your situation, and more importantly, that you're not doing this to land the big ride. you're doing it for a plastic trophy. i guess you overlook those things when you get caught up in race-on-sunday-and-go-back-to-the-office-on-monday routine

i'm also very happy to see that there are plenty gentlemen out there that do not lose sight of what we do. we are lucky to be doing it, and while other drovers can be looked at as 'bloody idiots', they're not the enemy you need to eliminate

TD in DC

I have a feeling that there is no real disagreement here. Some people are better at expressing themselves in the written words than others.

I read Bob Scotto's comments not as a threat, but as a recognition of reality that if you are a slow guy and you do not cooperate -- and I am not talking about going off line or slowing down since Bob said that failure to cooperate would slow both cars down -- with helping a faster car (in this case a car that is lapping you) get around you, you risk creating a situation in which the faster car feels compelled to push the issue by forcing a pass in a corner where they otherwise would not push so hard, and the result could be contact or one or both drivers going into the grass even if that is not the intent of either driver.

As a newbie, I like hearing these discussions because it is yet another chance to see how people "view" specific track situations.

Again. This discussion would be much more interesting over Scotch. See most of you guys at Watkins Glen!

Veloce Raptor

Again, said much better than I ever could have. +1

TD in DC

ahem,

the irony here is that }{ is not one of the guys who would hold you up in the first place . . . nor would I.

He was also punted off the track during his first PCA club race . . . and not because }{ was doing anything wrong . . .

}{arlequin

point is, this is an activity w/ enough highly consequential variables already built in. there's no need to magnify it by having an irate 'fast guy' getting annoyed over this. remember, this is just like going to play golf on the weekend. nothing more, nothing less. it.is.just.an.activity. a hobby....

analogmike

Veloce Raptor

Sorry, Mike, but }{ is correct.

Let me add a little story to help flesh out the lessons here.

There is a very talented drover in Grand Am Cup (now Koni Challenge) named Tom Nastasi, who droves a Mustang in GS class. In 2005 and 2006, he was a menace on track, despite his talent. His preferred droving method was to plow into people to "force" passes. Usually thet sent them off track into walls, and sometimes it also damaged his own car & his own race. He often did this to folks in the ST class, which is significantly slower. In fact, he did this to me even though I gave him 2 car widths of racing room at Barber. Thankfully, the ensuing damage only cost us 5 laps to fix, whereas he broke a ball joint when he t-boned me and it cost him the race.

He did this so much, and had such a pompous, arrogant "you had better let me by the second you see me or I will put you in the grass or worse" attitude that GAC officials finally parked him for several races in 2006 as punishment.

Several very talented racers spent time telling him how much better he would do if he could detach himself from any emotions & frustrations when behind the wheel. They showed him that experienced, championship PROFESSIONAL racers went out of their way to avoid contact, regardless of courtesy ort a lack thereof, because, if nothing else, contact could end their opportunity to win races.

Fast forward to 2007. Take a moment to go to Grand Am's web site, and look to see who is leading the points race in Koni Challenge GS.... And then look at the fact that Tom has had no penalties this year, and has not punted anyone off. He cleaned up his act, allowed his raw talent to prevail, and he is undefeated so far, IIRC.

TD in DC

}{ is correct, but I also don't think that Scotto was trying to say the opposite.

My interpretation is that, since this is a hobby and nobody wants contact, we all need to be very aware and cooperate.

Cooperation does not mean that you have to sacrifice your own race merely to get a faster driver by.

It does mean that you need to be aware and not try to block a lapping car simply because you can.

My bet is that most guys who do this do so out of cluelessness or lack of awareness rather than intentionally.

I never thought Scotto was trying to say that people have a duty to sacrifice their own race to get out of his way.

I think he was trying to say that people have a duty to be aware and cooperate, which is totally consistent with this being a hobby.

I have never met Scotto so I have no idea what he is like personally.

I am just interpreting his post in a way that gives him the benefit of the doubt, which is what I give to everyone and frankly what I expect.

analogmike

How can you say he's correct? It's all opinions. You can agree with him but you cannot say he is correct. I think he has never been in our position, though we all have spent years in his. All we are asking is fir COURTESY and ATTENTION. Run some SCCA races and you will learn to not **** people off then you don't have to stoop to calling them dicks.

Veloce Raptor

Brittle, brittle... Reread my entire post. Courtesy goes both ways. Threatening to put someone in the grass or worse isn't courtesy.

RSRRacer

I can handle the "Dicks." Its the "Janes" that really **** me off!

Like I said, take off the skirt, step on the gas.

(All props to Kim G who won her class at Daytona...)

TD in DC

Honestly, Dave, I don't see the threat:

Veloce Raptor

Well, I hope you are correct, Todd. However, it appears as if I am not the only one with the impression I got.