lgusto

I don't race with PCA so this does not affect me directly. But I feel compelled to assist fellow members whenever possible.

I'm amazed that an organization like PCA would want to collect and retain highly sensitive personally identifiable medical data. And I'm surprised anyone would allow this to take place in today's era of cyber crime. I would NEVER share my data with an organization unless I had concrete proof of adherence to all Federal and State laws regarding the protection of such data AND sufficient cyber theft insurance to cover incidents.

If this affected me directly I would begin by asking PCA for details on their specific cyber theft insurance coverage, which is very different from general liability coverage. I would also ask for a copy of their annual medical data security audit. Finally, I would ask for documentation that details EVERY person that has ever viewed my medical information, along with the date, time and reason for the access. I believe their compliance with such a request is required under Federal HIPAA and HiTech laws.

Or, PCA could decide their policies need to updated whereby they only request and retain a provider's (physician, PA, NP, etc.) sign off on fitness.

LuigiVampa

The problem is that PCA isn't subject to HIPAA or HiTech. However if PCA disclosed financial, medical, or other private information of a member, they could be sued, just like any other company with a data breach.

When we sign the PCA medical evaluation form we also agree to the following:

I give my permission for the PCA Club Racing Committee (including the Club Racing Medical Committee) to access and/or exchange information with any health care providers or institutions as well as the medical administration of other sanctioning bodies.

Not only are they looking at whatever medical information we provide, they have the right to request our full medical records for our doctors, hospitals, etc., as well as share their findings with other sanctioning bodies. Pretty ominous, when you think about it. Why does the PCA medical committee need these powers?

FunWithFiorio

Well clearly falling asleep while “racing” has been a problem for Porsche drivers for many years based on the age of these gadgets! Maybe this is some deep state ploy by an exec committee member to clear his/her living room of old trophies for the slow drivers on track?

But seriously, this is really eye opening (no pun intended). I am not a DE/racer yet but an active PCA member. It’s disheartening to see that an accomplished instructor who no doubt has volunteered a lot of time over the years is treated this way by the same organization that he has most likely represented respectfully for many years. It takes ages to cultivate new instructors for volunteer organizations. And from what I’ve seen with my local PCA, most of these people are not young. Idk when clubs are going to wake up to the fact that everything is more expensive and complicated than it was 50 years ago and that pay-to-play/ social media/ short attention spans/ insurance costs/life in general are real threats to the community aspect of volunteer organizations. Your point that “PCA won’t implode “ over you quitting is sad but true. However if some insurance/medical bureaucrat were to apply the same standards to drivers with other disclosed medical conditions, the DE program sure might!

The absurdity of the committee overriding the medical form signed by your physician is mind boggling. And no doubt the underlying “insurance” issues might be the culprit as others have mentioned. Reminds me of the insurance denial I received 6 months post op for a complicated sinus surgery that my daughter needed. It was signed by a gastroenterologist.

I hope you find a way to resolve this. I can sympathize with the way you’re wired and would probably react in the exact same way. However as a PCA member new to autocross and itching to try DE, we need to retain people exactly like you. Because without committed volunteers like you the club is nothing but a free marketing firm for Porsche and in time could easily devolve into yet another cars and coffee club.

After trying to respectfully resolve this with PCA, maybe you should take your complaint directly Porsche HQ in Germany? I doubt they’d take kindly to the lack of logic in the PCA decision or a threat of bad press as a result of said decision. Sometimes you just have to go right to the top and undercut all this mid level BS. You’ve already put so much info out there. Why NOT make it an international issue. I’ll be following. Good Luck.

LuigiVampa

Thanks for a very nice post and I like that coffee maker.

If you look at PCA club racing and HPDE the numbers overall are declining. If you look at PCA membership, it has skyrocketed in the last ten years.

When club racing and HPDE numbers are down by 20% it is a rounding error. If overall membership were down by 20% they would be ringing the alarm bells.

The members who engage in racing and HPDE are a rounding error of the membership which is why PCA really doesn't care about us.

Manifold

What are the numbers?

LuigiVampa

PCA reports 160,000 members. I saw a statistic that showed they almost doubled the numbers in the last 15 years. That is a huge success for PCA so they can pat themselves on the back for that increase. That being said, in the last few years they have shed something like 3% - 4%.

The number of club racers is around 3,000 or something like that. I don't know actual numbers but I believe it is down by at least 20% in the last ten years.

I've thought about it, and I don't know that a vote to change the bylaws to get rid of the medical committee would ever pass. Only club racers would vote to eliminate it while the rest of the membership, who gets to vote on it, would think "why would we get rid of a medical committee?" They wouldn't understand the problem.

That being said, the medical committee is a creation of either the Club Race Committee or the Executive Council. Either can easily vote to eliminate it, but I doubt a vote would ever force it.

NaroEscape

Can’t we suggest a Club racing rule change to eliminate the medical committee? Or curtail their authority?
Aren’t we in that time period now?

ELange0322

Exactly the point I made some time back. Ive seen green student drivers WAY more stressed than I'm sure racers are in a car. They are falling asleep either and I have zero worry that they will while on track. Is that something we are supposed to look for as instructors ? That our student is yawning and head bobbing as they are dozing off ? Ive seen exactly the opposite from the students Ive had, and Ive never worried that any of them didnt use their CPAP the night before. Given the performance level of the newest generation of street cars, I would think that racing with full safety equipment cant be significantly more dangerous. I get having a medical form (I guess), but having a Medical Committee not agree to the primary doctor assertion on the form is insane. I would think it actually adds risk and liability to them. Lastly, when and what would keep all this from trickling down into a DE ? I think there is much more medical risk with the DE participants than those Club Racing. Just my 2 cents...

Matt Romanowski

Pay attention to the old numbers. They used to just publish the primary member number, but not include primary and associate members. The 160,000 is really closer 80,000 paid memberships.

I'm sure there could be a publicity campaign to make a bylaw vote work. Heck, there have been plenty of other issues that caused a big stir that most members never heard of, but got lots of time.

Speaking of which, have you talked to Rico (Zone 1 Rep)?

LuigiVampa

The Club Race Committee or the Executive Council could make this go away with a simple vote. They won't because the general counsel has told them they shouldn't because it is a liability. I do not agree.

Interesting - so I wonder what the true growth has been, if at all?

I would try to change the bylaws even if I thought it could fail, just to get the message out. I just don't know it the general membership would understand it. PCA could save themselves from me having to try to get the message out and just put the proposed amendment out there themselves. They have that power.

Rico is a great guy but the people above him are saying they can't overrule the medical committee.

I find it remarkable that the medical committee, whom I can only assume have checked in on this thread, don't feel embarrassed. Is there mindset completely divorced from reality that they think they are in the right even though they can't give a single example to back up what they are saying?

Matt Romanowski

It's been a while since I was really involved, but the Zone Reps have a lot of power and voting rights. They have frequent calls and can put pressure on the EC. The challenge is that they probably won't push too hard, but it's worth asking them to push the topic. I have to imagine a great number of members can relate to using a CPAP and how there is no way you would fall asleep while racing.

FunWithFiorio

Wow. I just finished reading the entire thread. Talk about tripping over a rabbit hole. I was just here to find info on grill cover options today!

But...that medical form.....

"Psychological Problems"? Are they kidding? Not very PC, PCA!!!
People are diagnosed with epilepsy or diabetes, or heart disease. They are not diagnosed with "Psychological Problems". What exactly are they talking about? Narcissists/Sociopaths? Bipolar I or II? There are meds for the latter, not much anyone can do about the former. Anxiety, depression, ADD, ADHD. All treatable/manageable conditions in 2024. Still "problems"?

Have they met the future drivers of the world? The completely self absorbed teens and 20 somethings who are obsessed with (self)diagnosing their "issues" via TikTok doctors? Will every kid that was given an antidepressant because they "couldn't deal" at some point in high school or college have to divulge their past history as a "psychological problem" because their scripts come back to haunt them on some secret PCA licensing database?

And what if you're "in therapy" seeing a psychologist/psychiatrist because, IDK, pick anything from the news: you're going through a divorce, your teen hates you, you're incredibly stressed at work and can't leave your job because your family needs the insurance, or you have a car fetish that's going to bankrupt your family (ok- gambling problem for regular people). Any random stressful real life scenario that happens to millions of people daily. Are these considered "psychological problems" that can arbitrarily disqualify you for a license because a committee of internists, family practitioners, and orthopedists decided they have more knowledge and training than your treating psychologist/psychiatrist? Absurd!

How does the committee handle the people in recovery if a doctor checks the "alcohol/drugs " box? Do they require random breathalyzers or drug tests? If the OSA patient has to submit CPAP data that shows they've been compliant for some whimsical time frame, how does the committee handle sobriety? A week, a month, a year, 10 years? Or are drivers in recovery automatically denied a license? Do they equate one bad night of sleep to one slip in sobriety? If not, how do they square the compliance for each? Not logical!

How about a driver with a prosthesis? They've come pretty far since the days of the wooden leg and iron hand, yet the list still refers to these conditions as "gross deformities"!!! Am I the only one who felt gross after reading that? And embarrassed for PCA? Have they never heard of the ADA?

Not trying to be facetious here, but the whole subject and process seems both ridiculous and very slippery slope-ish(new legal term). I understand the need for some type of "Know Your Customer" protocol, but it might be more appropriate for bankers and new HPDE drivers, not club racers/instructors.

Every driver on track has a vested intere$t in going home with their bodie$ and their car$ intact. At every level. At every event. Seems like that's what SCCA has decided as well.

Standing for your principles is admirable. I hope you can keep up the good fight. The penalty for your honesty should not be complacency in the face of an error in judgement.

You have much more patience than I would have if I were in your shoes. I'd probably be taking a page from the kids these days and going nuclear with a public shaming campaign to get the antiquated medical committee and its fiefdom cancelled. What do you have to lose?

#FREE LUIGI : posted obsessively on social media tagging PCA, PCA Club Racing, CVR, etc. with a link to an online petition.

You never know!


-Fiorio

twk63

I would wear a "Free Luigi" t-shirt at my next track event!!

Matt Romanowski

If someone designs a logo, I'll get stickers made and maybe some t shirts.

dgrobs

Fantastic idea. Count me in….