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This whole thing is a can of worms. Doesn't help that the majority of CR and DE participants have entered the age group of having health conditions.
He'll, we have guys in DE that aren't healthy enough to raise their left arm and point. Some are even allergic to wind, rain and hot weather. Others want to be nannies and rule setting power players.
This whole thing is a can of worms..... Were does it end?
It's not my thread, so please correct me if I'm wrong, Luigi!
Trying to put and end to silly and arbitrarily created (not to mention imaginary...) rules is what the dispute is all about.
Maybe it can end here!
This whole thing is a can of worms. Doesn't help that the majority of CR and DE participants have entered the age group of having health conditions.
He'll, we have guys in DE that aren't healthy enough to raise their left arm and point. Some are even allergic to wind, rain and hot weather. Others want to be nannies and rule setting power players.
Were does it end?
Originally Posted by Nowanker
It's not my thread, so please correct me if I'm wrong, Luigi!
Trying to put and end to silly and arbitrarily created (not to mention imaginary...) rules is what the dispute is all about.
Maybe it can end here!
Matt said it best and this is where it should end -
I hope everyone involved can roll back to some kind of rational and reasonable standard, acknowledge that there is little good evidence to guide this situation, accept x-amount of uncertainty, and simply carry on.
We are amateur drivers pushing powerful cars to the limit and PCA wants to focus on the risk of CPAP usage. It just doesn't make sense.
We are amateur drivers pushing powerful cars to the limit and PCA wants to focus on the risk of CPAP usage. It just doesn't make sense.
it's pretty obvious that someone pulling the strings had an event occur in their orbit that made this important. But the slippery slope can be extended to heart medicine, diabetes, asthma and many other health related issues.
Plenty of good suggestions by rennlisters on how to address this to protect the PCA and drivers without going down a very slippery slope of irrational nannism.
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"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
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We don't really have a problem that needs to be solved. Serious injuries on track are rare and fatalities are almost unheard of, and this is the case even in DE where there are no medical forms and cars lack race car safety systems. Cars crash not infrequently, but those incidents usually only involve one car.
Just have DE drivers and racers attest that they're healthy enough to drive, thus transferring liability to them. Trust drivers to make sensible decisions regarding whether they're healthy enough to drive. Don't have any medical forms or medical committees, it's not necessary.
Do continue to make sure that cars are properly tech inspected.
We don't really have a problem that needs to be solved. Serious injuries on track are rare and fatalities are almost unheard of, and this is the case even in DE where there are no medical forms and cars lack race car safety systems. Cars crash not infrequently, but those incidents usually only involve one car.
Just have DE drivers and racers attest that they're healthy enough to drive, thus transferring liability to them. Trust drivers to make sensible decisions regarding whether they're healthy enough to drive. Don't have any medical forms or medical committees, it's not necessary.
Do continue to make sure that cars are properly tech inspected.
Not that I want some overreaching bureaucratic bs hitting DE killing the sport, but pretty much every HPDE involves instructors so the risk in some respects is greater with someone riding passenger. First timers can find out they're totally unsuited to the sport while they have an instructor's life in their hands. Although somewhat rare there are people who have no business being on the track either mentally or physically and yet there they are, lining up in the pits about to find out in a few minutes in real time. There is a level of risk we accept with motorsport and I am 100% without a doubt more worried about getting into someone's car for the first time than if someone on track who has already been track driving and road racing for years has updated their cpap machine results. I am also 99% fine getting into someone's car and evaluating them in real time.
As instructors, we can all make it very clear to our students that it's normal to get fatigued and there is nothing wrong with cutting a session short or sitting out a session. More importantly, the DE program will be here next month and they can come back to further develop their driving skills. There is no hurry. This approach can be repeated all day and professionally handle addressing medical issues without having a nanny checklist and changing any rules.
^ exactly. The same could be said for road racing with marshalls and fellow racers. Hey man, you're driving like **** and you look like you're about to fall asleep, perhaps pack it in today? Hey this car on track is driving like a drunken sailor, lets black flag him or see whats up when he comes in from practice/qualifying/whatever. That's the system that's been working for decades and is still the system that is going to get used regardless of proactively banning people in advance or not.
^ exactly. The same could be said for road racing with marshalls and fellow racers. Hey man, you're driving like **** and you look like you're about to fall asleep, perhaps pack it in today? Hey this car on track is driving like a drunken sailor, lets black flag him or see whats up when he comes in from practice/qualifying/whatever. That's the system that's been working for decades and is still the system that is going to get used regardless of proactively banning people in advance or not.
Wish that system would be used more proactively trackside than it is right now… Certainly has prevented incidents in DE’s, track days and club racing in the past.
It’s so apparent as a trained and experienced observer when things are going south… Some workers are good at this, too.
I just got a response from the PCA Audit Committee telling me that PCA did nothing wrong.
Not a single answer to my questions. Not a single justification for their decisions. PCA is right - Todd is wrong.
Where is the minimum standard? How was the medical committee formed and who do they report to? I asked so many questions and they didn't answer a single question.
You don't have to agree with me, and you might even think what I am fighting about is stupid, but PCA just doesn't give a $hit about right or wrong. They are going to do whatever they want to do and they aren't even embarrassed about how they go about doing it!
Instead of receiving the email below I would have preferred PCA to tell me to just go f*ck myself. At least that would have been more honest.
06-22-2024, 12:27 PM
