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Looks like the C8 Z51 FE4 was faster than the 992C2S over a flying lap (warmup laps, flying lap, cool down lap would me my guess), then again not surprised too much given the videos that have been posted of folks who can actually drive the car.
A more useful metric for those of us who track would have been an average over what amounts to a 25-30 minute track session. How the tires/brakes handle the session ~20laps and the laptimes over the session.
Last edited by 2slow2speed; 11-04-2019 at 05:17 PM.
Reason: Oops forgot to include the GT-R Nismo
Looks like the C8 Z51 FE4 was faster than the 992C2S over a flying lap (warmup laps, flying lap, cool down lap would me my guess), then again not surprised too much given the videos that have been posted of folks who can actually drive the car.
A more useful metric for those of us who track would have been an average over what amounts to a 25-30 minute track session. How the tires/brakes handle the session ~20laps and the laptimes over the session.
i was going to post this! So does anyone here still think the Cayman/gt4 is suddenly going to handle the C8! I’d say unlikely if it’s running with/ahead of the C2S! Your right would be interesting to see a 25-30 lap session but those types or results are rarely if ever published.
Positives
- looks good in person, even the rear
- the center wall isn’t bad at all. It doesn’t separate the passenger as much as i thought it would. It’s quite low.
- getting in and out was not as good as a 911 but wasnt horrible.
Negatives
- visibility wasn’t too good, but the seat adjustment was disabled. Also I have never driven a C7 so I can’t compare to old versions.
- quality of leather wasn’t good. The car definitely gets beat up in the C8 tour with so many people sitting and touching it. The one I sat in had whitish/grey leather. However, the scratches in the leather showed a light tan color.
Other
- I still think it is a game changer due to looks, power, and price. At the time I was looking at the car a Ferrari, McLaren, Maserati, Alfa Romero we’re there looking at the C8. That tells me the car will bring in people that it has never been able to reach before.
- car is huge compared to Porsche’s
why get a used gt4 when it will be same cost as a new one? might as well order your own since price doesn't really go down and you don't have to worry about previous owner abusing it on track. and you know it will have been tracked. and c8 being supercar killer is talking about the soon to come zo6, zr1, not base car. I still think base is way better than 718 with its 4 cyl and z51 compares favorable to 992 at half price
You make a strong point about the GT4 price right now. Fingers crossed some depreciation will shave a bit off the top.
IMHO, the lack of depreciation about a car that's been in the hands of owners since 2016 speaks volumes.
Hmmm, wonder what depreciation is going to be like for the C8 in 2024 when there are close to 200K of them in circulation? => Track beater car!
You're kinda making my point about the "supercar killer" label. Before there was no parsing of the variants, it was just "the C8" in general.
I think these Gen1 base C8's are going to be a POS.
I've already sat in a 718 Cayman and was thoroughly impressed with the sense of quality. A bit of an advancement over my 981.
The 4 cyl. TT is an issue for me, but its already well on its way to becoming a Track darling. So this should help tamp down some depreciation.
But that GT4.. damn.
Any C8 worth a damn is going to be ~$85K. Which is getting close to the 992 S price.
Originally Posted by 2slow2speed
Lap Times
Porsche 911 Carrera S 1:23.08 Chevrolet Corvette 1:22.83
Looks like the C8 Z51 FE4 was faster than the 992C2S over a flying lap (warmup laps, flying lap, cool down lap would me my guess), then again not surprised too much given the videos that have been posted of folks who can actually drive the car. A more useful metric for those of us who track would have been an average over what amounts to a 25-30 minute track session. How the tires/brakes handle the session ~20laps and the laptimes over the session.
That particular C8 was a prototype-RINGER, not a production car. All the other cars on the list were actual production cars.
So you have to wonder.. if the production C8 will lose a significant amount of time whilst sliding all over the track.
And as driven that C8 was at least $85K.. The new Carrera S is what.. ~$100K. Gettin' awfully close together in price.
I would definitely throw down the extra cash for the Porsche. A car with significant history, one I can actually sit in and test drive myself.
And as driven that C8 was at least $85K.. The new Carrera S is what.. ~$100K. Gettin' awfully close together in price.
I would definitely throw down the extra cash for the Porsche. A car with significant history, one I can actually sit in and test drive myself.
The 992 911 S starts at $114k. I assume as tested it was at least $130k. You can get a Corvette with all the performance goodies and 2lt interior for $75kish. The price gap is massive.
The 992 911 S starts at $114k. I assume as tested it was at least $130k. You can get a Corvette with all the performance goodies and 2lt interior for $75kish. The price gap is massive.
I am wondering if that price gap is related to the strikes at the C8 plant that have pushed delivery to later next year. GM may have been shorting the workers to keep the price down. Just sayin'.
Whatever you think about the current 718's, at least their tires don't squeal around corners like the C8. It appears the handling for the new Corvette which is heavy on under-steer was designed by the GM legal department.
LMAO, exactly. The thing by all accounts sounds like a Cadillac Corvette. Big, powerful, all the right tech goodies to make it go fast, but mostly just a good GT car that is isolated, comfortable, and well intended for geriatrics who want to "look cool" but not deal with actual direct/connective sports car nature.
Originally Posted by MXA121
A car that is at least as quick as a C7 around track and barely slower than a 992 S - yet inflammatory response to understeer. Seems ridiculous, no?
What it sounds like to me is a car with a whopping 50+ HP advantage that puts up similar to lower average times than a 911 S. Which also put out an embarrassingly poor skidpad performance despite having stickier tires than the 911. Which means it sounds like a car with a lot of power and a good transmission that doesn't have a chassis capable of competing with (cohesively handling) its own drivetrain. I'm LOL'ing at people who think it will be a more enjoyable backroad carver than any Cayman. Citing performance stats is fun on internet forums, but when you're yawning behind the wheel as your car crosses triple digit speeds, you aren't exactly getting an emotive connection out of a car.
They even managed to make the most glorious aspect: The N/A engine muted in the cabin. The fact that a quiet/isolated 9A2 911 in the most luxurious form yet (992) is LOUDER in cabin, just shows how much Chevy suppressed the auditory quality of the N/A V8. Why give it such a viscerally emotive engine if the car is completely isolated from it inside.
You can get a Corvette with all the performance goodies and 2lt interior for $75kish.
The cheapest allocation I've heard of so far was for $73K. N' that was pretty damn sparse.
I dunno.. at this point we really need to see these two cars in a side-by-side comparo. "Production car to Production car".
Also, I've heard a couple of the car journo dudes say the C8 is a lot like the other Vettes.. "5 laps to a rattle trap" I think was the quote.
I rode passenger in my HPDE Instructors C6 Z06 and that was a MAJOR rattle trap. Was some of the scariest laps I've ever had on a track.
Not at all like the Vipers and the Porsches.
Originally Posted by box
I am wondering if that price gap is related to the strikes at the C8 plant that have pushed delivery to later next year. GM may have been shorting the workers to keep the price down. Just sayin'.
Yeah dittos. The end of the strike was so under celebrated. I had no idea it ended when it did.. not much info. since either.
Very strange they're not making a bigger deal about impending delivery dates. GM is a strange company.
Originally Posted by K-A
LMAO, exactly. The thing by all accounts sounds like a Cadillac Corvette. Big, powerful, all the right tech goodies to make it go fast, but mostly just a good GT car that is isolated, comfortable, and well intended for geriatrics who want to "look cool" but not deal with actual direct/connective sports car nature.
What it sounds like to me is a car with a whopping 50+ HP advantage that puts up similar to lower average times than a 911 S. Which also put out an embarrassingly poor skidpad performance despite having stickier tires than the 911. Which means it sounds like a car with a lot of power and a good transmission that doesn't have a chassis capable of competing with (cohesively handling) its own drivetrain. I'm LOL'ing at people who think it will be a more enjoyable backroad carver than any Cayman. Citing performance stats is fun on internet forums, but when you're yawning behind the wheel as your car crosses triple digit speeds, you aren't exactly getting an emotive connection out of a car.
They even managed to make the most glorious aspect: The N/A engine muted in the cabin. The fact that a quiet/isolated 9A2 911 in the most luxurious form yet (992) is LOUDER in cabin, just shows how much Chevy suppressed the auditory quality of the N/A V8. Why give it such a viscerally emotive engine if the car is completely isolated from it inside.
This line from clutchplate made coffee come out my nose - "but understeer to the degree that the car sounds like a Ford Galaxy in a Manix car chase scene".
I think the engine note is confusing. The car looks like it should sound more like a Lambo. Its a huge mis-match. Not good. Its weird.
They should race towards that flat plane crank version.. but that'll also come with new vibration issues.
Still positive is the Tremec / Hoebringer DCT. Good news.. fingers firmly crossed that doesn't change.
Any C8 worth a damn is going to be ~$85K. Which is getting close to the 992 S price.
So you require $25K in options to make the C8 worth a dam? I don't think many C8 buyers will share your view. As far as the prices for decently equipped 992Ss, why speculate. They are already on dealers' showrooms and I don't see them flying off their lots. The Porsche dealership closest to me is Porsche of Towson. They have four in their inventory priced from $140K - $148K. Even with your inflated $85K C8 price, that's still around $60K less than these 992Ss: https://www.porschetowson.com/new-in...-anchor-trim-3
As a long time 911 owner, I still love the brand but their prices have now reached the obscene level.
LMAO, exactly. The thing by all accounts sounds like a Cadillac Corvette. Big, powerful, all the right tech goodies to make it go fast, but mostly just a good GT car that is isolated, comfortable, and well intended for geriatrics who want to "look cool" but not deal with actual direct/connective sports car nature.
Wow, this hit home with me on so many levels.
A co-worker bought one of the Caddy CTS-V's and I had to admit I was impressed, but it is like you say "Big, powerful, all the right tech goodies to make it go fast...", but at the end of the day it's no different than what we used to call a 'hot rod'. A stock car that a guy puts a big engine in, some tweaks to the wheels/brakes/chassis and then drag races it in front of Mel's Diner on Saturday night.
Back in the middle ages when I was in college, I happened to be in my (five years old, couldn't afford a new one) 914 on HWY 39 (Maury River Road) through the Goshen Pass in Virginia. Up comes a Charger, maybe a Camaro, nudging my butt, but as soon as we hit the turns (max safe speed 25 MPH) I watched his heavy front end swaying back and forth like a sapling in the wind as he tried to stay up with me. I, of course, was in a car that hugged the road like it was on rails. Even with a "VW Porsche" the racing heritage was evident.
Now I drive a 991.2 and wifey hates it. Why? Her complaint: I can feel every bump in the road! My response "Duh!"
Oh, and that 911 is my daily driver simply because we geriatrics can afford it. I'll add that since we're not in a rush we have the extra time it takes to get in and out of it as well 😜
So you require $25K in options to make the C8 worth a dam? I don't think many C8 buyers will share your view. As far as the prices for decently equipped 992Ss, why speculate. They are already on dealers' showrooms and I don't see them flying off their lots. The Porsche dealership closest to me is Porsche of Towson. They have four in their inventory priced from $140K - $148K. Even with your inflated $85K C8 price, that's still around $60K less than these 992Ss: https://www.porschetowson.com/new-in...-anchor-trim-3
As a long time 911 owner, I still love the brand but their prices have now reached the obscene level.
I don't disagree. Many C8 buyers have already made the decision they're going to have to live with. For them, its a done deal.
I'm at the point where these pricing discussions and car comparisons have become moot. With the C8 they haven't made much sense so far and I just don't care much anymore.
Just tired of it. I want to sit in one and drive the damn thing for myself. N' I know I'm not the only one.
For me, its become more about THE CAR than the PRICE of the car. Established well known performance, quality, reliability and how well it holds value over time. That's what matters most.
MANY long time Porsche owners (maybe such as yourself) have said their car "still feels as tight as it did the day I bought it new". I've only heard that from a very select groups of car owners and Corvette ain't one of 'em.
Porsche pricing.. for what you get.. I don't think is all that bad. You can certainly spend a lot more money on a much worse car.
Also I've become a big fan of the slightly used CPO Porsche. In a few years might be able to pick up one of those 2019 992S's for around $100K. IMHO great deals for what you get.
Last visit to my dealer I sat in a 2017 Carrera GTS CPO car that was amazing. Price was good and the CPO Warranty had been extended out further to something like 5.5 years.
Originally Posted by caymanCrush
The end of the strike was so under celebrated. I had no idea it ended when it did.. not much info. since either.
Very strange they're not making a bigger deal about impending delivery dates. GM is a strange company.
Anyway, just saw this news about the C8 production delay. Finally a word from GM on the subject. LINK
I don't disagree. Many C8 buyers have already made the decision they're going to have to live with. For them, its a done deal.
I'm at the point where these pricing discussions and car comparisons have become moot. With the C8 they haven't made much sense so far and I just don't care much anymore.
Just tired of it. I want to sit in one and drive the damn thing for myself. N' I know I'm not the only one.
For me, its become more about THE CAR than the PRICE of the car. Established well known performance, quality, reliability and how well it holds value over time. That's what matters most.
MANY long time Porsche owners (maybe such as yourself) have said their car "still feels as tight as it did the day I bought it new". I've only heard that from a very select groups of car owners and Corvette ain't one of 'em.
Porsche pricing.. for what you get.. I don't think is all that bad. You can certainly spend a lot more money on a much worse car.
Also I've become a big fan of the slightly used CPO Porsche. In a few years might be able to pick up one of those 2019 992S's for around $100K. IMHO great deals for what you get.
Last visit to my dealer I sat in a 2017 Carrera GTS CPO car that was amazing. Price was good and the CPO Warranty had been extended out further to something like 5.5 years.
Anyway, just saw this news about the C8 production delay. Finally a word from GM on the subject. LINK
I have bought many cars over the last 50 years, and they were all new. A low mileage CPO Porsche may be something I'll consider in the future. There's a 2012 CPO Porsche Turbo for sale at a nearby dealership for $120K; original MSRP was over $170K. So maybe I'll check it out, but after all these years I must admit to being nervous about buying a used car.
The C8 looks good on paper, but I agree with you that I wouldn't consider one seriously until I drove it. Also, I wouldn't buy the first year model; maybe not even a 2nd year model. I tried to get some data on the C8, so I visited the Corvette forum but that place is like the animal house. There is some good info there, but you have to weed through all the BS and personal attacks to find it.
11-04-2019, 05:13 PM
Road and Track 20202 Performance Car of the Year results
