View Poll Results: what do you think?
really clean, nice looking Vette....
174
31.46%
a very different Vette but we'll sure as hell take it.
165
29.84%
i'll be ordering one soon.......
98
17.72%
No thank you
116
20.98%
Voters: 553. You may not vote on this poll
Thoughts on the new corvette?
09-12-2019, 08:07 PM
#2656
Comparing a company that has about 20 different product lines, not even including commercial lines to a company that has 6 seems like apples and oranges.
Purity and rich tradition? Its a car dealer, just like any car dealer, trying to sell you a car. I really didn't feel any rich tradition. And there are Macans and Cayennes sitting in the showroom. I like your romanticized view of the car buying process, but it doesn't seem realistic. As for purity, the 996 wasn't purity of breed. Neither is turbocharging the base line of cars. Neither is moving the 911 from a sports car to a gt.
If you feel that you bought into some sort of exclusive club and that makes you more satisfied with your purchase, more power to you. But bad companies can make a good car, and good companies can make a bad car. I would rather be able to experience what is out there because it is interesting and fun to drive regardless of who made it.
Purity and rich tradition? Its a car dealer, just like any car dealer, trying to sell you a car. I really didn't feel any rich tradition. And there are Macans and Cayennes sitting in the showroom. I like your romanticized view of the car buying process, but it doesn't seem realistic. As for purity, the 996 wasn't purity of breed. Neither is turbocharging the base line of cars. Neither is moving the 911 from a sports car to a gt.
If you feel that you bought into some sort of exclusive club and that makes you more satisfied with your purchase, more power to you. But bad companies can make a good car, and good companies can make a bad car. I would rather be able to experience what is out there because it is interesting and fun to drive regardless of who made it.
The Porsche dealers near me today have just a few 911s on their lots, and their bread and butter is SUVs.
The following 2 users liked this post by fast1:
CaymanCarver (09-14-2019),
GT3FZS (09-18-2019)
09-12-2019, 08:12 PM
#2657
Burning Brakes
Comparing a company that has about 20 different product lines, not even including commercial lines to a company that has 6 seems like apples and oranges.
Purity and rich tradition? Its a car dealer, just like any car dealer, trying to sell you a car. I really didn't feel any rich tradition. And there are Macans and Cayennes sitting in the showroom. I like your romanticized view of the car buying process, but it doesn't seem realistic. As for purity, the 996 wasn't purity of breed. Neither is turbocharging the base line of cars. Neither is moving the 911 from a sports car to a gt.
If you feel that you bought into some sort of exclusive club and that makes you more satisfied with your purchase, more power to you. But bad companies can make a good car, and good companies can make a bad car. I would rather be able to experience what is out there because it is interesting and fun to drive regardless of who made it.
Purity and rich tradition? Its a car dealer, just like any car dealer, trying to sell you a car. I really didn't feel any rich tradition. And there are Macans and Cayennes sitting in the showroom. I like your romanticized view of the car buying process, but it doesn't seem realistic. As for purity, the 996 wasn't purity of breed. Neither is turbocharging the base line of cars. Neither is moving the 911 from a sports car to a gt.
If you feel that you bought into some sort of exclusive club and that makes you more satisfied with your purchase, more power to you. But bad companies can make a good car, and good companies can make a bad car. I would rather be able to experience what is out there because it is interesting and fun to drive regardless of who made it.
I own a Chevy Silverado. By no means do I have anything against the brand. But to compare the Porsche history and Chevy.. isn’t even in the same ballpark. IMO
09-14-2019, 09:29 AM
#2658
https://www.corvetteracing.com/wp-co...etteRacing.pdf
09-14-2019, 10:07 AM
#2659
Burning Brakes
I’m getting the 718 Spyder too. I wanted a manual transmission, I wanted something smaller and lighter, and jagged styling of the Corvette doesn’t appeal to me, particularly with the weird protrusion in the door. I like the looks of the Spyder much better, and it would also be much rarer than a Corvette. After factoring in depreciation, for my use case, the Porsche won’t be too different than a Corvette Z51 in cost of ownership either.
The 718 Spyder does have the same peak torque as the 981 (420 Nm), but it has a wider torque band. The 981 (GT4 and Spyder) produce the rated torque from 4750 to 6000 RPM, while the 718 produces the rated torque from 5000-6800 RPM, and continues to sustain torque above 6800 much better than the old Spyder (all the way up to its increased 8k RPM redline). For the most part, the better top end torque is only usable outside tracks or the Autobahns in second gear. Nevertheless, first gear acceleration should be fun up to 80 km/h, and second gear torque is enough for me (though a tad more torque is always welcome).
The other torque curve change of the new motor is at the bottom. The new motor has a more gradual build of torque than the old, as opposed to the peaks and troughs of the old one. The new motor produces slightly more torque than the old one between 3k and 4K RPM (eg. 370 Nm vs 360 Nm at 3500 RPM), but this difference is small (only 3% extra). The new motor also has significantly more torque under 2k RPM lazy street driving (eg. right turns without downshifting). At 1500 RPM the new motor produces 333 Nm instead of 300 Nm from the old.
In terms of power to weight ratios, if Porsche isn’t underrating their power and torque as usual, the 718 GT4/Spyder is about the same as the base Corvette. The GT4 and Spyder both weigh 1420 kg in base form (about 1380 kg with LWBS ans PCCB). According to the leaked specs, the curb weight (wet) of the C8 is 1604 kg coupe, 1650 kg convertible. The C8 Z51 engine is rated at 368 kW, the 718 at 309 kW. That gives 0.218 kW/kg for the 718 Spyder, 0.223 for the C8 convertible. That’s only a 2.3% difference, and if Porsche underrates compared to Chevy as usual, then they’re equal.
For the same power to weight ratio and same cost of ownership, I could have a 1650 kg Corvette with styling I dislike, or a rare 1420 kg Porsche. It was a no brainer for me.
The 718 Spyder does have the same peak torque as the 981 (420 Nm), but it has a wider torque band. The 981 (GT4 and Spyder) produce the rated torque from 4750 to 6000 RPM, while the 718 produces the rated torque from 5000-6800 RPM, and continues to sustain torque above 6800 much better than the old Spyder (all the way up to its increased 8k RPM redline). For the most part, the better top end torque is only usable outside tracks or the Autobahns in second gear. Nevertheless, first gear acceleration should be fun up to 80 km/h, and second gear torque is enough for me (though a tad more torque is always welcome).
The other torque curve change of the new motor is at the bottom. The new motor has a more gradual build of torque than the old, as opposed to the peaks and troughs of the old one. The new motor produces slightly more torque than the old one between 3k and 4K RPM (eg. 370 Nm vs 360 Nm at 3500 RPM), but this difference is small (only 3% extra). The new motor also has significantly more torque under 2k RPM lazy street driving (eg. right turns without downshifting). At 1500 RPM the new motor produces 333 Nm instead of 300 Nm from the old.
In terms of power to weight ratios, if Porsche isn’t underrating their power and torque as usual, the 718 GT4/Spyder is about the same as the base Corvette. The GT4 and Spyder both weigh 1420 kg in base form (about 1380 kg with LWBS ans PCCB). According to the leaked specs, the curb weight (wet) of the C8 is 1604 kg coupe, 1650 kg convertible. The C8 Z51 engine is rated at 368 kW, the 718 at 309 kW. That gives 0.218 kW/kg for the 718 Spyder, 0.223 for the C8 convertible. That’s only a 2.3% difference, and if Porsche underrates compared to Chevy as usual, then they’re equal.
For the same power to weight ratio and same cost of ownership, I could have a 1650 kg Corvette with styling I dislike, or a rare 1420 kg Porsche. It was a no brainer for me.
Forget it if lease. Nicely optioned vette w sticker $75k will probably lease 1200/mo. Same spyder at $120k will be over $2000/mo.
09-14-2019, 11:05 AM
#2660
That sounds like a rainbow setup for a new story that's going to be bad.
Shill response #2972.
Just adding more words to the swirling miasma that's become the most ridiculous "Reveal/Release" of a car in automotive history.
AFAIK still to THIS DAY, no independent 3rd party has been allowed to actually drive the damn thing.. let alone drive it and THEN write about it.
You can run around screaming "Apples & Oranges" all you want, but the rest of the automotive world has lost its patience with GM and the C8.
I know I have!
The C8 has become the poster child of how not to do a "Reveal & Release".
The Porsche Taycan (on the other hand), has been a master class demonstration on how it's done.
Based on your post, I'm going to assume there's more significant delays in the actual release of the C8.
GM must be battling some very serious problems with the car.
The following users liked this post:
jkautz (09-14-2019)
09-14-2019, 10:51 PM
#2661
Rennlist Member
Happy to chill and wait for reviews, real-world.
When the car is released to production, within 90 days there will be tens of thousands of actual owner miles - on track.
It will either be a hit, or a dud. I hope for the former, but am not going to get worked up either way.
Cheers
Matt
When the car is released to production, within 90 days there will be tens of thousands of actual owner miles - on track.
It will either be a hit, or a dud. I hope for the former, but am not going to get worked up either way.
Cheers
Matt
The following users liked this post:
CaymanCarver (09-15-2019)
09-15-2019, 12:36 AM
#2662
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Palm Beach Gardens, FL
Posts: 930
Likes: 0
Received 266 Likes
on
167 Posts
What the hell!? What is that..? The Chewbacca Defense for GM and the C8.
That sounds like a rainbow setup for a new story that's going to be bad.
Shill response #2972.
Just adding more words to the swirling miasma that's become the most ridiculous "Reveal/Release" of a car in automotive history.
Really, you'd rather experience it? Have you actually driven the C8 yet?
AFAIK still to THIS DAY, no independent 3rd party has been allowed to actually drive the damn thing.. let alone drive it and THEN write about it.
You can run around screaming "Apples & Oranges" all you want, but the rest of the automotive world has lost its patience with GM and the C8.
I know I have!
The C8 has become the poster child of how not to do a "Reveal & Release".
The Porsche Taycan (on the other hand), has been a master class demonstration on how it's done.
Based on your post, I'm going to assume there's more significant delays in the actual release of the C8.
GM must be battling some very serious problems with the car.
That sounds like a rainbow setup for a new story that's going to be bad.
Shill response #2972.
Just adding more words to the swirling miasma that's become the most ridiculous "Reveal/Release" of a car in automotive history.
Really, you'd rather experience it? Have you actually driven the C8 yet?
AFAIK still to THIS DAY, no independent 3rd party has been allowed to actually drive the damn thing.. let alone drive it and THEN write about it.
You can run around screaming "Apples & Oranges" all you want, but the rest of the automotive world has lost its patience with GM and the C8.
I know I have!
The C8 has become the poster child of how not to do a "Reveal & Release".
The Porsche Taycan (on the other hand), has been a master class demonstration on how it's done.
Based on your post, I'm going to assume there's more significant delays in the actual release of the C8.
GM must be battling some very serious problems with the car.
And saying that the Taycan release is a masterful demonstration how it's done? Really? Releasing the flagship model starting at over $150k will have very low level appeal to those in the market for an ecar.
The following users liked this post:
GT3FZS (09-15-2019)
09-15-2019, 01:54 AM
#2663
Burning Brakes
This is utterly ridiculous. The car had its debut under 2 months ago, and you've drawn conclusions based on no facts that the car is having serious problems.
And saying that the Taycan release is a masterful demonstration how it's done? Really? Releasing the flagship model starting at over $150k will have very low level appeal to those in the market for an ecar.
And saying that the Taycan release is a masterful demonstration how it's done? Really? Releasing the flagship model starting at over $150k will have very low level appeal to those in the market for an ecar.
09-15-2019, 11:10 AM
#2665
Rennlist Member
Happy to chill and wait for reviews, real-world.
When the car is released to production, within 90 days there will be tens of thousands of actual owner miles - on track.
It will either be a hit, or a dud. I hope for the former, but am not going to get worked up either way.
Cheers
Matt
When the car is released to production, within 90 days there will be tens of thousands of actual owner miles - on track.
It will either be a hit, or a dud. I hope for the former, but am not going to get worked up either way.
Cheers
Matt
Just like you said it may be a hit or a dud, and I am happy to wait and see. If it is a hit, I will be placing an order next year. If it is a dud, I will go back to my original plan of looking at R8s.
The following users liked this post:
GT3FZS (09-18-2019)
09-15-2019, 11:48 AM
#2666
Dr. Chill,
First off, I LOVE your Avatar! N' apologies in advance for parsing your words.
Have to disagree categorically with that statement.
In October 2017 (almost two years ago) I began researching the C7 Grandsport.. thought I was gonna get one.. => run away run away!!
About mid-way through that process, I started hearing about the upcoming release of the c8 in MID-2018. Researched that a bit and added the "mid-engine" to my checklist for the next car.
Ever since, GM has delayed the actual release of the c8. They finally did the "Reveal" two months ago.. but it still hasn't been "Released". Not even to "auto industry journalists".
After all the delays, decided to find the next best car that checked off all the boxes on my list, which led me to the Porsche Cayman.
My point exactly. Still to this day, there are no hard facts collected by independent 3rd parties. Just paper declarations from GM. Your Mileage May Vary.
This is NOT normal. There should've been a solid dozen press cars in the hands of auto journalists by now.
Typically, they have unfettered access to the car for a week or more AND THEN they write about it.
Compared to the roll-out (Reveal & Release) of the c8, damn right! The Taycan Reveal & Release has been a master class demonstration in how its done.
AFAICT, the official Reveal date for the Taycan was 9-4-2019.
But look, here's a vid of an independent auto-journo dated 8-9-2019 who was invited to a track to test Launch Control on the Taycan.. ALL DAY LONG. AND then he wrote about it and posted a video!
This hasn't happened AT ALL with the c8.
The c8 Reveal is really starting to smack of an act of desperation by GM to (1)save face and (2)collect some cash on pre-orders.
Another point of legitimate comparison is the business of pre-orders.. We've all heard about how the c8 has been "sold out". But I don't recall hearing any actual numbers.
Porsche on the other hand, has shared they've already received more than 30,000 pre-orders for the Taycan.
One of the last articles I read about the c8 was from a frustrated auto-journo saying that from here on out.. the c8 gets a lower case "c" until he gets to actually drive one and write about it.
IMO that seems appropriate at this particular juncture.
First off, I LOVE your Avatar! N' apologies in advance for parsing your words.
Have to disagree categorically with that statement.
In October 2017 (almost two years ago) I began researching the C7 Grandsport.. thought I was gonna get one.. => run away run away!!
About mid-way through that process, I started hearing about the upcoming release of the c8 in MID-2018. Researched that a bit and added the "mid-engine" to my checklist for the next car.
Ever since, GM has delayed the actual release of the c8. They finally did the "Reveal" two months ago.. but it still hasn't been "Released". Not even to "auto industry journalists".
After all the delays, decided to find the next best car that checked off all the boxes on my list, which led me to the Porsche Cayman.
Originally Posted by Dr Chill
and you've drawn conclusions based on no facts that the car is having serious problems.
This is NOT normal. There should've been a solid dozen press cars in the hands of auto journalists by now.
Typically, they have unfettered access to the car for a week or more AND THEN they write about it.
Originally Posted by Dr Chill
And saying that the Taycan release is a masterful demonstration how it's done? Really? Releasing the flagship model starting at over $150k will have very low level appeal to those in the market for an ecar.
AFAICT, the official Reveal date for the Taycan was 9-4-2019.
But look, here's a vid of an independent auto-journo dated 8-9-2019 who was invited to a track to test Launch Control on the Taycan.. ALL DAY LONG. AND then he wrote about it and posted a video!
This hasn't happened AT ALL with the c8.
The c8 Reveal is really starting to smack of an act of desperation by GM to (1)save face and (2)collect some cash on pre-orders.
Another point of legitimate comparison is the business of pre-orders.. We've all heard about how the c8 has been "sold out". But I don't recall hearing any actual numbers.
Porsche on the other hand, has shared they've already received more than 30,000 pre-orders for the Taycan.
One of the last articles I read about the c8 was from a frustrated auto-journo saying that from here on out.. the c8 gets a lower case "c" until he gets to actually drive one and write about it.
IMO that seems appropriate at this particular juncture.
The following 2 users liked this post by CaymanCarver:
BlueNorther (09-15-2019),
jkautz (09-16-2019)
09-15-2019, 12:45 PM
#2667
Burning Brakes
09-15-2019, 01:10 PM
#2668
Burning Brakes
So a brand that has a ton more models discontinues some and that's somehow a reflection on the Corvette which has a similar history to the 911 and is not being discontinued.
This is getting dumber than the Koenigsegg torsional rigidity argument
This is getting dumber than the Koenigsegg torsional rigidity argument
The following 2 users liked this post by StudGarden:
CaymanCarver (09-16-2019),
GT3FZS (09-18-2019)
09-15-2019, 01:10 PM
#2669
Rennlist Member
I'd like to think that, but I am not sure that is the case anymore. They Taycan is part of the new wave of EV cars that is the future of nearly every automaker out there. And the car starts at $150k. And it tops out at 750hp. It has hp more than every other car Porsche has outside of unobtainium 918. I am just not sure that the 911 is Porsche's primary focus or consider it their flagship.
09-15-2019, 01:19 PM
#2670
Burning Brakes
I'd like to think that, but I am not sure that is the case anymore. They Taycan is part of the new wave of EV cars that is the future of nearly every automaker out there. And the car starts at $150k. And it tops out at 750hp. It has hp more than every other car Porsche has outside of unobtainium 918. I am just not sure that the 911 is Porsche's primary focus or consider it their flagship.
The following users liked this post:
CaymanCarver (09-16-2019)