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If they launch the 718 EV tomorrow and say they will only build 1000/yr, it would sell out instantly. Then it's a 'hit' by your definition.
If instead, they pump out 40000/yr like they did the Taycan, then it's not a 'hit' because they might have excess built?
Any Econ professors in here?
If production is constrained and you sell every one you make, it's a hit. i.e. 4.0L
If production is unconstrained and you can't sell, this is a failure. i.e. Taycan.
Unsold product generates 0% margin and becomes a liability (for the dealers mainly). Not a difficult concept.
Big sign outside of the dealership. I just drove by it today since I work a couple blocks from the dealership and it was still there. 30k off 2023 Taycans. If you want to use it as proof I can snap a picture of it tomorrow if I remember.
Most likely is the engine, could also be the chassis. They are simultaneously tooling up for the 718 EV which may be impacting the total capacity for the current car. I know production of GT4 and Spyder has been on a steady decline over the last 4 years, while demand and wait lists are still long.
And here's 2022 718 4.0L production numbers, the non GT cars are even rarer.
Anecdotally, I do business at 2 Porsche dealerships. My local only has a dozen new cars for sale - half of which are Taycan (many unsold 2023's), zero 718's, zero 911's. The other dealership has many Taycans (10+) and the rest Macan and Cayenne.
No need to guess what any dealer would rather have on the floor right now, a Taycan or a 718/911?
So we agree, if Porsche constrains volume of the 718 EV andkeeps it on an order list, it's a hit, regardless of sales volume.
First you would need to assume there is any consumer demand for the vehicle, which based on activity here and lack of dealership interest / order lists, there is almost zero.
Next, you would need to assume they would have to willingly and consciously constrain the production, which they may have to due to the pathetic demand, but no one in their right mind would call that a success.
The 4.0L is most likely unwillingly constrained by production factors or supply chain issues for the engine, but there could be other factors at play.
First you would need to assume there is any consumer demand for the vehicle, which based on activity here and lack of dealership interest / order lists, there is almost zero.
Next, you would need to assume they would have to willingly and consciously constrain the production, which they may have to due to the pathetic demand, but no one in their right mind would call that a success.
The 4.0L is most likely unwillingly constrained by production factors or supply chain issues for the engine, but there could be other factors at play.
Believe what you will. It's all conjecture. Ask yourself, why Porsche sells twice as many Taycans as 718s?
Speculation of future demand aside, loving that the 718 EV will get Taycan headlights and the solid bar out back a-la the GT4 E Performance models. SSP architecture gives some hope that Porsche will do this well. https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/spy-sh...an-sports-car/
In the current North America EV Market place, any EV will have tough going. I would make a friendly wager that Porsche delays the 718 Introduction in North America given Mondays news that the EPA is dropping it's excessively tight emission standard for 2027 onward, and will be maintaining the current emission levels for "a few more years" post 2027. Seems the current Administration is listening to the market place in an election year and sees the clear writing that EV's are not yet ready to be mainstream vehicles.
I believe the other "slight of hand" that PCNA puts into their sales figures is that they "sell" cars to the Dealer Network. So the numbers reported below are NOT actual sales to a final customer, but to a Dealer. And thus we can back out close to ~2000 Taycans (199 Dealers x ~10 new Taycans) which are sitting on dealer lots. Still the Taycan did sell a fair amount in the 1st half of 2023 as folks were giving EVs a try.
The bottom line for the 718 EV is: What will the Marketplace be in 2026(?) for a US $100K EV Sports Car? My Crystal Ball say "Low to None".
Are you guys trying to prove Taycans don't have the biggest discounts right now or something? or that it's a one off on one car at a specific dealership discount?
I can tell you a bit of what I know having worked in the industry. Most likely it is a manufacturer rebate to dealers to blow these cars out independent of their normal profit and discount structure. That's literally how it was with at least one German manufacturer when I worked for dealerships long ago (I haven't worked for Porsche but I've worked for 2 different VW dealers and one Audi). There is another Porsche dealer that has a breakdown of their Taycan discounts. A 2023 base model stripper would work out to 22g. A 200k taycan would work out to just over 30k by that dealer's breakdown. The next biggest discount would be Cayennes. On a 2023 240k turbo S E-cayenne it works out to 16k.
And long after I switched careers I know it was still possible to negotiate independently of the manufacturer incentive. I did that with a BMW once that had a massive manufacturer incentive on it due to being a previous model year, and the dealer was willing to take a massive chunk off in addition to that. It is quite possible the dealer is taking normal discounts on top of the incentives so it could be significantly more off than what is advertised.
02-19-2024, 04:35 PM
