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Had to chuckle on that. Politics has EVERYTHING to do with this topic. Measure politics on Federal "participation" at 10's of billion dollars in tax breaks for development, 10's of billions for manufacturing development, more 10's of federal billions for tax breaks on purchase, many billions on tax breaks for purchase.
Politics = dollars spent in picking winners.
Trust me.
As a reminder to all politics should not be discussed in a technical forum such as this one - it has nothing to do with the OP's intent and it will only lead to a heated discussion.
Not here saying the Tesla's are better, but let's not try and act like they are only good at going fast in a straight line....and anyone who says these cars are boring has most likely never even sat in one and for sure has never driven one
Instead of hating on Tesla's people should be happy that they are pushing the boundaries on what EV's are capable of instead of just making boring commuter cars....I don't care for Elon, but I do like what he has done with the EV.
Their heavy four door sedans and showing they can hang on any track, I can't imagine what their roadster is going to do.
I'm loving my M3P that I recently picked up, my only regret is that it took me so long to realize what I was missing....for the money, you won't find a more fun and capable four door daily driver....doesn't mean I stopped loving my 718 cuz you can appreciate both with an open mind.
When you take your M3P to the track (if you do), you'll realize it's faults. All my M3P seat time is on the track. It impressed me with how fast it went and how well it cornered for how heavy it was, but plenty did not impress me. Generally when I go to the track I like to get more than a few laps. I'm sure most people going to a track day taking a day off work and spending hundreds on it, as well as probably traveling decent distances want to get more than half a session. Telsa leads in range, and yet your M3P can't do a full session at a track, let alone a full day, because of a lack of power. It also can't do that because the batteries overheat. It also can't do that because the motors overheat. You'll probably get 10 minutes of decent performance on a track, but after that it'll fall off a cliff for performance. Performance is also limited when it's not almost fully charged, so fast charging it to 50% or so won't work for track days.
When you take your M3P to the track (if you do), you'll realize it's faults. All my M3P seat time is on the track. It impressed me with how fast it went and how well it cornered for how heavy it was, but plenty did not impress me. Generally when I go to the track I like to get more than a few laps. I'm sure most people going to a track day taking a day off work and spending hundreds on it, as well as probably traveling decent distances want to get more than half a session. Telsa leads in range, and yet your M3P can't do a full session at a track, let alone a full day, because of a lack of power. It also can't do that because the batteries overheat. It also can't do that because the motors overheat. You'll probably get 10 minutes of decent performance on a track, but after that it'll fall off a cliff for performance. Performance is also limited when it's not almost fully charged, so fast charging it to 50% or so won't work for track days.
Once more and more SC's are installed at more tracks that won't be much of an issue and most of the tracks in the US are short tracks under 3 miles long usually....usually run in 15-20 minute intervals, so there is plenty of time to charge between sessions...but let's face it, less than 2% of the driving population is ever going to track their cars...it is an expensive hobby and tracks aren't exactly all over the place. The point is, these cars are very capable cars and not just one trick ponies...The Top Gear Track lap times using stock vs stock and the same driver(the Stig) is a great way to actually gauge a cars capabilities and the M3P was faster than a 718 CS and a 981 GTS and lot's of other cars people would consider great handling cars. Like I said, dollar for dollar it is in a league of its own when it comes to four door sports sedans when it comes to tech, practicality and performance
I'm not going to be one of those who just hates on EV's for no real reason and looking forward to what Porsche does with the next gen Cayman ...I can't wait!!!
Had to chuckle on that. Politics has EVERYTHING to do with this topic. Measure politics on Federal "participation" at 10's of billion dollars in tax breaks for development, 10's of billions for manufacturing development, more 10's of federal billions for tax breaks on purchase, many billions on tax breaks for purchase.
Politics = dollars spent in picking winners.
Trust me.
I think you missed the part where I was talking about myself. Why I don't like Teslas.
No, politics has nothing to do with why I don't like Teslas, and no random forum person will convince me I don't know what I care about. Trust me.
I think it's widely understood it has everything to do with why EVs are being pushed down manufacturers' throats worldwide.
Not here saying the Tesla's are better, but let's not try and act like they are only good at going fast in a straight line....and anyone who says these cars are boring has most likely never even sat in one and for sure has never driven one
Instead of hating on Tesla's people should be happy that they are pushing the boundaries on what EV's are capable of instead of just making boring commuter cars....I don't care for Elon, but I do like what he has done with the EV.
Their heavy four door sedans and showing they can hang on any track, I can't imagine what their roadster is going to do.
I'm loving my M3P that I recently picked up, my only regret is that it took me so long to realize what I was missing....for the money, you won't find a more fun and capable four door daily driver....doesn't mean I stopped loving my 718 cuz you can appreciate both with an open mind.
Sorry for the double post, but that roadster looks amazing. I'd consider that the same way I'd consider a Porsche. Aesthetics are important, and I swear I vomit a little in my mouth every time I see a Model 3, X, or Y. The P90 is ok.
The interior will have to be improved. I HATE the interior aesthetic of Teslas. That's all I'll say on the topic but I will never buy one if they still have the giant iPad slapped on the dash. It's stupid, sorry.
Yes I have "sat in one", and I drove a Taycan. On a track. As I said earlier. I'm not a fan of the "artificial" sense of instant torque. Maybe I could get used to it but it didn't win me over initially.
I'm also immensely turned off by the fanboys vehemently defending them and/or trying to convince anyone who clearly doesn't like them that they should. Of which you are certainly one, whether you have a 718 or not.
Point remains about taking an electric car on a track. What has quickly ruined track experiences for me personally is when my car starts exhibiting signs of failure. Until I have a very high degree of confidence that I can beat on an electric car all day long without worrying about it literally catching on fire, I'm just simply not interested. Batteries and motors overheating and having to take a break to charge it (leading to more heat?) doesn't sound appealing to me. Will Porsche, Tesla, GM, et al figure it all out someday? Maybe. But for now I refuse to be a beta tester and you can call that close-minded if you want.
Last edited by manifold danger; 02-24-2023 at 08:23 AM.
Sorry for the double post, but that roadster looks amazing. I'd consider that the same way I'd consider a Porsche. Aesthetics are important, and I swear I vomit a little in my mouth every time I see a Model 3, X, or Y. The P90 is ok.
The interior will have to be improved. I HATE the interior aesthetic of Teslas. That's all I'll say on the topic but I will never buy one if they still have the giant iPad slapped on the dash. It's stupid, sorry.
Yes I have "sat in one", and I drove a Taycan. On a track. As I said earlier. I'm not a fan of the "artificial" sense of instant torque. Maybe I could get used to it but it didn't win me over initially.
I'm also immensely turned off by the fanboys vehemently defending them and/or trying to convince anyone who clearly doesn't like them that they should. Of which you are certainly one, whether you have a 718 or not.
Point remains about taking an electric car on a track. What has quickly ruined track experiences for me personally is when my car starts exhibiting signs of failure. Until I have a very high degree of confidence that I can beat on an electric car all day long without worrying about it literally catching on fire, I'm just simply not interested. Batteries and motors overheating and having to take a break to charge it (leading to more heat?) doesn't sound appealing to me. Will Porsche, Tesla, GM, et al figure it all out someday? Maybe. But for now I refuse to be a beta tester and you can call that close-minded if you want.
it is what it is....its the same thing for me if someone tried to convince me into getting a convertible Porsche...not gonna happen, mostly aesthetics
Not a fanboy by any means, I just got the thing a week ago and not a big Elon fan at all....I just love driving the thing, it is a blast and the instant go juice never will get old....not to mention premium is almost $5 a gallon here, so I don't miss that at all.
I wasn't a fan of the M3 or MY at first, but they grew on me and with the right stance with the right wheels they look much better than the stock ones with those dumb aero-caps
Once more and more SC's are installed at more tracks that won't be much of an issue and most of the tracks in the US are short tracks under 3 miles long usually....usually run in 15-20 minute intervals, so there is plenty of time to charge between sessions...but let's face it, less than 2% of the driving population is ever going to track their cars...it is an expensive hobby and tracks aren't exactly all over the place. The point is, these cars are very capable cars and not just one trick ponies...The Top Gear Track lap times using stock vs stock and the same driver(the Stig) is a great way to actually gauge a cars capabilities and the M3P was faster than a 718 CS and a 981 GTS and lot's of other cars people would consider great handling cars. Like I said, dollar for dollar it is in a league of its own when it comes to four door sports sedans when it comes to tech, practicality and performance
I'm not going to be one of those who just hates on EV's for no real reason and looking forward to what Porsche does with the next gen Cayman ...I can't wait!!!
Do you think it is more likely people are hating on them for no reason, or that you have blinders on?
I don't hate them and I don't have blinders on at all on these things. From about 6 years old to my mid 20s the latest tech was cool to me. But spending my whole life living most every major tech boom with a front row seat, I'm now very skeptical of the 'latest and greatest tech that will solve all our problems and has no downside'. So much tech is not vetted and isn't going to stick. So much new tech is actually a net negative over what it's designed to replace. Ya, almost no one tracks thier car, but the thing is, we're posting on a Porsche forum and a lot of us do here, so it's on topic to the conversation in that context.... and if you'e going to apply that to the context your average car owner then almost no one is rich either is a more important counterpoint. The ideal user of a EV probably is someone who is in the top 5-10% earning bracket, owns their own house with a garage and lives in the suburbs, as well as has a spouse with another car that is not a EV. If you can't park your EV indoors and charge it at home you shouldn't own an EV here IMO. In Canada 15% of new homes built are detached and only a portion of those have attached garages. Very few condos built have adequate underground parking. EV's are rich people toys. They will likely be rich people's toys for decades, possibly forever. I will be very surprised if they don't price poor people out of owning cars and it's quite possible that is by design. As far as I'm concerned I'm about the poorest person who should probably be buying a EV right now. There are lots of other negatives about them too. They're not the perfect replacement to gas cars by any means.
I actually like the Model 3 exterior as long as it doesn't have those ugly base wheels. As far as I am concerned this is a really good looking car from most angles. Only the roof line at teh back is a little wonky IMO.
As a reminder to all politics should not be discussed in a technical forum such as this one - it has nothing to do with the OP's intent and it will only lead to a heated discussion.
Not to change the subject on this thrilling thread but I have to ask...@BobZ I got the sit in a 718 Spyder for the first time last weekend and really liked it. I wanted to ask you, do you daily drive yours? I am not ready to make a purchase yet and have never been a fan of convertibles, but the Spyder may be the only one I would consider purchasing. The front end looks gorgeous!
Not to change the subject on this thrilling thread but I have to ask...@BobZ I got the sit in a 718 Spyder for the first time last weekend and really liked it. I wanted to ask you, do you daily drive yours? I am not ready to make a purchase yet and have never been a fan of convertibles, but the Spyder may be the only one I would consider purchasing. The front end looks gorgeous!
No, I am retired so I only use it on Saturday's for the most part...I prefer to ride the Harley during the week if I need to go somewhere.
it is what it is....its the same thing for me if someone tried to convince me into getting a convertible Porsche...not gonna happen, mostly aesthetics
Not a fanboy by any means, I just got the thing a week ago and not a big Elon fan at all....I just love driving the thing, it is a blast and the instant go juice never will get old....not to mention premium is almost $5 a gallon here, so I don't miss that at all.
I wasn't a fan of the M3 or MY at first, but they grew on me and with the right stance with the right wheels they look much better than the stock ones with those dumb aero-caps
Yeah the "no convertible" thing isn't apples to apples but I guess I get your point. Except the 911 cab. I don't like the way the rear looks either but it's just a matter of personal preference, still a great looking car I just don't know if I'd own one, especially while the Boxster exists.
Your pics here do nothing for me though. Polishing a turd. Every Tesla except that roadster thing is hideous to my eyes. Like, deeply offensive.
Agree to disagree.
Originally Posted by pkalhan
Not to change the subject on this thrilling thread but I have to ask...@BobZ I got the sit in a 718 Spyder for the first time last weekend and really liked it. I wanted to ask you, do you daily drive yours? I am not ready to make a purchase yet and have never been a fan of convertibles, but the Spyder may be the only one I would consider purchasing. The front end looks gorgeous!
Have to ask. Couldn't this have been done via PM? Or by watching any of a number of YT reviews, or full articles written by professional journalists?
Last edited by manifold danger; 02-25-2023 at 10:14 AM.
...apologies if someone thinks it's OT but I think instead that (even if clearly sponsored) would add more sense to discussion than using Tesla as an example of what is doing Porsche.
Still, I don't think I would have never traded my GTS4.0 for a brand new top-of-line future cayman, likely not even for a beefy add. Do that means I'm too old ?
Last edited by GT Omologata; 02-25-2023 at 02:41 PM.
Maybe like how someone invented some terrible system to drive the front wheels instead of the back ones they'll also invent some terrible position for the batteries and the debate will become about where the batteries go. I for one don't think batteries belong on the roof but I'm sure someone is thinking hmmmm, it only compromises handling? Sign us up!
02-23-2023, 05:28 PM
but I have to ask...@BobZ I got the sit in a 718 Spyder for the first time last weekend and really liked it. I wanted to ask you, do you daily drive yours? I am not ready to make a purchase yet and have never been a fan of convertibles, but the Spyder may be the only one I would consider purchasing. The front end looks gorgeous!
