dcrooke

Further to Andy's comment, I'm not nearly good enough to race, I'll make a fool of myself. My only w2w experience is fun karting with motor club people in Scotland, which quickly turns into a miniature BTCC race of the "rubbing is racing" flavour where the side pod of the kart in front is a legitimate braking device Fortunately, we have good relations with the local kart places and they don't mind the odd sidepod ding.

The general muppetry at MVP, while very unexpected, I sorta understand and can even sympathise with to a degree; people were over-excited and under-experienced, but are two things I just simply cannot understand about the event at CotA ... I have seen some of these behaviours before, and I am still wholly mystified ....

1. What possible reason do people have for refusing point-bys? Do they get some kind of satisfaction out of kidding themselves that they held off a faster car? As Andy pointed out to me, it's not a race, so why are people not giving point-bys. I thought it's W2W where they are supposed to deliberately try to keep you back?

Once again, I'm not counting scalps, I just want to run my car at a challenging / interesting pace, and that requires cooperation from those who prefer to take it easier, or whose cars are less capable.

2. Why one earth does someone spend thousands of dollars to come to a DE, with a fancy race car, and then drive like an old lady going to the shops? I don't understand the point. I went to CotA to drive fast. The cap in the Wolf told me I'd learn more by slowing down, and I get what he's referring to, but I don't understand how it's responsive to a polite request for a point by in the next session.

I know that kind of statement sounds snarky and prideful, but the speeds of some cars were so low that it beggars belief. I have no issue with people that want to take it easy and enjoy the track, I myself had an incredibly relaxed run in automatic with the street tires for the first session, it was very reminiscent of driving out to Marble Falls, and it was a perfect preview. I was turning 2:50's and dishing out quite a few point-bys.

Seriously, why do they do it (the blocking)?

Equally, in hindsight tailgating the bejeezus out of the Wolf like Nigel Mansell on Senna's gearbox through Tamburello was a pointless waste of stress on my part; if someone doesn't care to give point bys or isn't paying attention, no amount of mirror dancing is going to change that. What I should have done was run the pit lane, and then asked Mark after the very first session to have his "come to Jesus" with RED at lunchtime Friday. I got a righteous chewing out from him and rightfully so, he had about a dozen idiots to deal with Friday and all I did is turn into one myself.

Saturday was a ton better, as was Sunday ... might have been good to have someone give a classroom session for red first thing Friday while everyone else was on the track, though hindsight is 20/20 and I am sure Mark was as surprised as the rest of us at the bad behaviour and had expected no need for elementary stuff.

El Matador

Put dawg in instructor seat and you are guaranteed to learn how to drift. You have no choice. He will force you.

CKit

edit...

996FLT6

Point bys suck. Learned that at NASA NorCal- they don't do freaking pointbys!!! Mike

BartN (TX)

It really sounds like the MVP organization had no method or data to group comparable driver skills and car abilities together. That's one of the things that distinguished the TDE event from MVP. We had almost no trains in our run group and, other than the very odd exception, got and gave early point-bys and usually had faster cars with slower drivers lift considerably to allow an immediate pass. Another big benefit was that we had detailed daily drivers meetings and training in the morning (mandatory) and during lunch which specifically stressed track etiquette whereas your event seemed more like open track days I've attended.

It seems a reshuffling should have taken place after day one if MVP had the staff available to monitor the run groups.

Veloce Raptor

Previous MVP events I have coached (at Road America) seemed very well done in this regard.

The Greek

I think it was a combination of things. People definitely over inflated there resumes to get into advanced groups. But we heard gripes from less skilled drivers who requested to be in intermediate groups, but got placed in an advanced group. On the second day, we tried to request cars being shuffled, but were denied. No one was getting moved. Add this with the flagging debacle and you can see how the first two days were very frustrating.

The third day was the only bright spot. A lot of people left, plus corner workers only used black flags instead of red (better than nothing).

ProCoach

That's why TrackDaze and a few other groups are using RFID tags to accumulate data on their customers and place them accordingly. More homogenous run groups, fewer trains and a better experience for all.

There will always be a disparity between fast in the straights/slow in the corners and "momentum" cars, they make their lap times differently.

My experience with the MVP event that my client hired me for was enough not to make that group high on my list of recommended venues, but I'm open to change if the groups at MVP can be better vetted.

We still need to remember that the best DE's and track days are ones committed to upholding the priority of a learning environment, and instead of scolding and treating entrants as irresponsible kids, entreat drivers with that common goal.

I'll stop drinking idealistic Kool-Aid soon, promise!

mglobe

Passing rules, whether they require point-bys or not, set up an environment where drivers know what to expect from each other. A no point-by system can work just fine if you are surrounded by drivers that are experienced enough to handle it. A system that uses point-bys works great unless there are folks that either can't give a point-by, or choose to ignore the rules and pass without a point. Both of these "offenses" need to be dealt with by the organizer. The former through education, the latter through discipline.

Not giving a point-by creates frustration. Passing without one in a point-by system creates danger where there doesn't need to be any.

Streetking

I had a blast at COTA. I actually had a full day on thursday on a private track day with just a total of 20 of us I even got to take my Scud around a few laps on thursday.. I have driven a total of 496 miles on that track last week! I really enjoyed meeting alot of you. I lost a cam variator in the GT3..it's at Porsche now..

SW

dcrooke

CKit had originally said "Why get your panties in a bunch on day 1" and I have to admit this is the wisest comment I've heard in years; I wish I had not had so much adrenalin flowing Friday morning so I could have thought that way myself while on the track at 29 mph

The other thing I need to check myself with is remembering how easy the GT-R is to drive at 8/10-ths, thus I was ready to start putting some speed into it after 2-3 recce laps in the very first session, which I ran on M+S tires. There were other folks of my limited experience in much more challenging cars and it's not reasonable to expect them to be quick out of the box.

On Saturday, I took the approach of working around the novices, rather than getting frustrated by them, and it was relaxed and fun. The main ameliorative was going and gridding ridiculously early to ensure I was at the very front, this gave me 3 laps before lapping the slowest cars, who were generally well spaced out and on top of their point-bys (blue Mustang, green Westfield, red base Corvette, etc.) and another 2 before mixing it with the problem traffic, i.e. the novices who were trying too hard and not checking mirrors

A 25 min session at CotA is only 8.5 hot laps for me, so that makes for a better mix, and laps 2-3 when the tires are at their peak is traffic free.

Like @TrackToyz, I like running on a clean track and getting in the zone and practicing lines, but I don't have anywhere close to Andy's level of experience, and so I also like to follow more experienced drivers and watch their lines and braking. There was a black GT3RS in red who was pretty good, and has a lot more experience than I do, and so on Friday he was a little bit quicker than me despite the car delta. Rather than wait 2 laps for him to catch me in one session, I just lifted down the back straight and pointed him by early, and then I had someone to learn from - bonus!

Seth Thomas

It was great meeting everyone at the track this past weekend. Everyone here seems to have come up to speed at COTA on Sunday. I will say this is not an easy track to learn in a few laps and a lap time can't be made up with horsepower like some tracks (but it helps). Riding with those I did was a blast. Sorry I put extra ballast in your car keeping your lap times lower I enjoyed the experience and hearing how you all drive.

I did get to run some laps in AllanS 4.0 on Sunday at lunch. My best in 5 laps was a 2:29.9 with traffic and Allan in the right seat. I believe it was capable a 2:27.5 with a few clear laps. That car was a blast to drive with the suspension goodies he has installed.

One of the coolest sites on track was being behind Randy Pobst in a yellow BMW E36 lifting the front inside wheel about 6" in the air all the way around the carousel. Of course the front sway bar was set way too stiff after talking with him but it made for some cool photos.

Looking forward to more track time with you crazy guys.

Seth Thomas

I think this was the real issue. One of the reasons I was told they couldn't reshuffle was because all the run groups were full with the amount allowed by the track.

deputydog95

I had Seth ride shotgun with me for a session. Picked up some good driving tips. And some grass He definitely knows a whole lot of about car setup and lines. Very nice guy.

Seth Thomas

<Cough>Astroturf<cough><cough>

Thanks DeputyDog.