Definitive 991 GT3 Thread
12-03-2012, 01:40 PM
#136
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The uncertainty in this speculation is the homologation rules. If Porsche cannot homologate its racer with the production version of the mules we've all seen spy shots of, then what are they going to do? The PDK transmission doesn't mate with the Mezger engine, they already promised that the RS 4.0 would be the swansong for the Mezger, etc. The race car mule we've seen is definitely a 911, not a 961 or whatever it will be called. They cannot seriously expect to race a car with the Mezger engine and then call a glofiried GTS a GT3.
If this happens, likely won't be until facelift.
12-03-2012, 01:48 PM
#137
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The FIA homologation for the 997 CUP expires in 2019..
http://www.fia.com/sites/default/fil...09.10.2012.pdf
http://www.fia.com/sites/default/fil...06.2012%29.pdf
http://www.fia.com/sites/default/fil...16.03.2012.pdf
Porsche
GT2 003 911 GT3 RS (997) 01.02.2007 2015
GT3 007 997GT3 CUP MY06 01.04.2007 2019
GT3 015 911 GT3 CUP S 01.04.2008 2019
GT3 025 911 GT3 R 01.05.2010 2019
NGT 8 911 GT3 RS – 3'598.1cc 01.03.2004 2013
GT2 003 911 GT3 RS (997) 01.02.2007 2015
GT3 007 997GT3 CUP MY06 01.04.2007 2019
GT3 015 911 GT3 CUP S 01.04.2008 2019
GT3 025 911 GT3 R 01.05.2010 2019
NGT 8 911 GT3 RS – 3'598.1cc 01.03.2004 2013
http://www.fia.com/sites/default/fil...09.10.2012.pdf
http://www.fia.com/sites/default/fil...06.2012%29.pdf
http://www.fia.com/sites/default/fil...16.03.2012.pdf
12-03-2012, 01:53 PM
#138
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They are making Two different 991 GT3 versions...
One for track use with the good ole GT1 motor and a manual gearbox
The other will be a C&C version with the DFI motor, PDK & leather wrapped vents.
My hunch is that #2 will outsell #1 given the current trend of P.showroom visitors
One for track use with the good ole GT1 motor and a manual gearbox
The other will be a C&C version with the DFI motor, PDK & leather wrapped vents.
My hunch is that #2 will outsell #1 given the current trend of P.showroom visitors
12-03-2012, 02:00 PM
#139
Drifting
If they're going to use the 9A1 in the GT3 and the Mezger in the RS, then they should put a Flat-8 version of the 9A1 in the GT3. Cheaper to build than Mezger with much more appeal than Flat-6 9A1 (and it will mate to PDK).
If this happens, likely won't be until facelift.
If this happens, likely won't be until facelift.
If it's the case that the GT3 does not homologate the racing car, but -rather - that only the RS does, then there are several interesting implications.
The GT3 could be faster than the RS, as the 9A1 is a lighter engine. The RS could be much, much more expensive than the GT3 since it will be lower volume than the 997 versions (and not have the regular GT3 over which to amortize the costs). How many people will pay a huge premium for 997 GT3 running gear in a 991 body with a big wing and some decals? Would they deliberately keep it slower than the 4.0? Would they just use the 4.0 again? They can't go larger...
12-03-2012, 02:15 PM
#140
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There is a Porsche move that will surprise me:
a) Release the 991 GT3 with 9A1 and both trannies: 7-speed manual and PDK
b) Release the 991 GT3 RS with Mezger and 6-speed manual
If they do (b), resale on 4.0RS gets adjusted, and mark-up on 991 GT3 RS is going to be awesome for U.S. car dealers.
a) Release the 991 GT3 with 9A1 and both trannies: 7-speed manual and PDK
b) Release the 991 GT3 RS with Mezger and 6-speed manual
If they do (b), resale on 4.0RS gets adjusted, and mark-up on 991 GT3 RS is going to be awesome for U.S. car dealers.
12-03-2012, 02:18 PM
#141
Drifting
They are making Two different 991 GT3 versions...
One for track use with the good ole GT1 motor and a manual gearbox
The other will be a C&C version with the DFI motor, PDK & leather wrapped vents.
My hunch is that #2 will outsell #1 given the current trend of P.showroom visitors
One for track use with the good ole GT1 motor and a manual gearbox
The other will be a C&C version with the DFI motor, PDK & leather wrapped vents.
My hunch is that #2 will outsell #1 given the current trend of P.showroom visitors
12-03-2012, 04:00 PM
#143
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I was always in the "Mezger or bust" camp. The GT3s I've driven were phenomenal in the powerplant department. However, after thinking more about gravimetric power density, I am starting to embrace the "new" engine.
Why do we still want the old Mezger when:
1. The 9A1 will make the same power and weigh less. (Isn't it 50+ pounds less?)
2. It will be cheaper to rebuild/replace.
3. No dry sump, but aren't people already racing Carrera S's with the sophisticated integrated dry (wet) sump?
To me adding navigation to a GT3 is more of a departure than moving ahead with engine technology. GT3 = basic 911 with low weight and track day oriented suspension, aero, brakes, transmission, and engine.
Why do we still want the old Mezger when:
1. The 9A1 will make the same power and weigh less. (Isn't it 50+ pounds less?)
2. It will be cheaper to rebuild/replace.
3. No dry sump, but aren't people already racing Carrera S's with the sophisticated integrated dry (wet) sump?
To me adding navigation to a GT3 is more of a departure than moving ahead with engine technology. GT3 = basic 911 with low weight and track day oriented suspension, aero, brakes, transmission, and engine.
12-03-2012, 04:04 PM
#144
12-03-2012, 04:18 PM
#145
Drifting
I was always in the "Mezger or bust" camp. The GT3s I've driven were phenomenal in the powerplant department. However, after thinking more about gravimetric power density, I am starting to embrace the "new" engine.
Why do we still want the old Mezger when:
1. The 9A1 will make the same power and weigh less. (Isn't it 50+ pounds less?)
2. It will be cheaper to rebuild/replace.
3. No dry sump, but aren't people already racing Carrera S's with the sophisticated integrated dry (wet) sump?
To me adding navigation to a GT3 is more of a departure than moving ahead with engine technology. GT3 = basic 911 with low weight and track day oriented suspension, aero, brakes, transmission, and engine.
Why do we still want the old Mezger when:
1. The 9A1 will make the same power and weigh less. (Isn't it 50+ pounds less?)
2. It will be cheaper to rebuild/replace.
3. No dry sump, but aren't people already racing Carrera S's with the sophisticated integrated dry (wet) sump?
To me adding navigation to a GT3 is more of a departure than moving ahead with engine technology. GT3 = basic 911 with low weight and track day oriented suspension, aero, brakes, transmission, and engine.
12-03-2012, 04:48 PM
#146
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I just hope they figure out how to get better gas mileage out of the Metzger, because currently in race trim, both the R8 LMS and 458 GT3 spec with their DFI are much better on fuel consumption. That's a problem when your race car is built for endurance racing. Weissach knows this, and I'm sure they will address it, as it's one of the current car's biggest weaknesses.
12-03-2012, 06:20 PM
#147
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12-03-2012, 06:34 PM
#148
Race Director
I just hope they figure out how to get better gas mileage out of the Metzger, because currently in race trim, both the R8 LMS and 458 GT3 spec with their DFI are much better on fuel consumption. That's a problem when your race car is built for endurance racing. Weissach knows this, and I'm sure they will address it, as it's one of the current car's biggest weaknesses.
Last edited by Mike in CA; 12-03-2012 at 07:00 PM.
12-03-2012, 06:38 PM
#149
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An article in the October Panorama spoke to precisely your point, which is why, among other reasons, the author said that the Porsche teams were anxious for the new 991 chassis with DI engine. Continuing to use the Mezger, either for the street or as a racing powerplant going forward, seems unlikely to me, despite Harris' tweet......
12-03-2012, 07:00 PM
#150
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What I've heard....
Nov US intro tho people on Rennteam say March
Who really knows
Price $137,00
450+ hp
Rear wheel steering as well
Close to a cup car
Nov US intro tho people on Rennteam say March
Who really knows
Price $137,00
450+ hp
Rear wheel steering as well
Close to a cup car