Marv

You are right, they are producing efuel. It's not the science that is the problem, it's simply synthetic gasoline, but it is ramping up production that makes this so difficult. Right now the production numbers are a drop in the lake. To reach the current production output of gas and diesel you need an enormous amount of energy (electricity) to drive the process. Pray for fusion, because we simply do not have that ability.

You are also right about EVs not fulfilling the needs. That was why I said that the net problem is not solved—yet.

To get to that point will require a mulit-pronged approach of some form and new ideas.

GC996

I definitely agree with you. Seems that one perfect solution just doesn't exist on this one. But the more we rip apart the issues, the closer we get to a "multi-pronged" approach which is practical in application that checks the (1) don't wreck the environment and (2) don't wreck the economy boxes.

EVOMMM

I agree Efuel isn’t the sole answer but the toxicity of Used EV batteries the majority of chemicals controlled by by the Chinese govt
Saudi refusing to play ball with us
Efuel is better “value “ at the current world situation
one I wouldn’t mind paying extra for

GC996

For sure. In present time, we need gas to fuel the 1.4 billion vehicles around the world so the global economy doesn't shut down. The question is what is the gas derived from. Petrol (not clean) from an oil company or Synthetic (clean) from an oil company?

Saudi ARAMCO, the largest oil company in the world is already working on it.

islaTurbine

Because oil/gasoline isn't....lol

peterp

Question: How many gallons of gas in energy equivalence does the battery in Tesla’s heavy luxury car (the Model S), hold to achieve its range of 300 to 400 miles?

When you know the answer to that question, you’ll know why EV’s are the solution once the battery cost question is solved.

Mining and fracking for oil that is burned immediately and whose byproducts linger in air is not an issue, but somehow mining for materials for batteries that are built once and continue provide energy for 20 years (10 in car plus 10+ more years in energy backup) is somehow awful.

And, no, EV’s are not somehow magically recharged only by coal power plants. You’d be hard-pressed to find consumer power that isn’t highly diversified with significant renewables. I do agree that nuclear shouldn’t be shunned however.

I’ve read all of the EV horror story articles you guys are reading. They aren’t science - all easily disproved with basic math (the laws of physics are not malleable). I’m not a fan of the Tesla car or interior designs, but what they have achieved by pioneering EV practicality is amazing and necessary.

All these claims about people not liking EV are made up. Try to find a real-world Tesla owner who doesn’t LOVE their car. EV’s are expensive now because of the battery. Buying very old used EVs isn’t typically viable because of the insane cost to replace the battery. EVs aren’t a fit if you don’t have the ability to charge at home (eg park in an apartment lot with no power access). EV’s aren’t great yet for continual long distance use, especially for EVs that can’t use Tesla’s supercharger network. Once battery cost is solved, few people will want ICE for run-of-the-mill daily drivers and infrastructure will scale in response to demand as needed (there is no mystery on how to build more power capacity, it’s just insanely stupid/expensive to do that when EV production/consumption is limited by battery cost issues. Power equipment sitting idle would cost us a ton of money in our power bills every month for no benefit.

Marv

Youn do realize that there is nothing clean about synthetic fuel. It's still gasoline and produces the same CO2 and pollutants that is in your tank right now, but in different concentrations (more C02, the same nitros oxides, but less particulates as actually measured in real-world testing).

The only true difference is that it is synthesized through a process that consumes a lot of electricity versus refinement of crude oil. The idea that is it carbon neutral is only true if the electricity used to synthesize the fuel is generated from carbon-free sources such as wind, hydroelectric, and solar.

So, synthetic is not necessarily "clean" unless you invest in a massive amount of new solar, wind, and other carbon-free sources of energy to make it.

bdronsick

Everyone loves their Tesla so much because their government is subsidizing half the (actual) purchase price, and most of the charging cost

Unsustainable, period

GC996

No question. The "clean" is in the manufacturing of it, not the burning of it. In contrast to the environmetal devastation caused by the mining to manufacture batteries, as well as the pollution caused by their disposal, neither of which is "clean". Al Gore would call it the "inconvenient truth" of synthetic fuel manufacturing and battery manufacturing.

Which one does more damage?

We all know in a few years that the US will be called into Africa to help find a solution and ultimately pay for the damage done to the land and water as a byproduct of mining for minerals to manufacture the "green" batteries used to power EVs.

I openly acknowledge the pollution from drilling, refining and burning petroleum based fuel as well as burning synthetic based fuel.

But will the EV/battery proponents quantify and acknowledge the environmental damage as well?

Complexities everywhere.

Marv

I'd probably love to have a new electric Cayman (in addition to my GT3), but for purely selfish reasons. Much lower maintenance costs (federal law mandates at least 100K miles for battery warranty and electric motors are far simpler than the 200 precision parts inside my Mezger) and more performance (torque).

You are right and the government will remove subsidies as time goes on. They already have.

So there you have it, EVs and ICE cars are both unsustainable.

peterp

????????

Tesla was off of subsidies for several years, due to production limits that they hit long ago (started phasing out in 2018). The people i know who bought Tesla did NOT get subsidies.

Tesla recently got subsidies again, I think because they have dangled opening up their supercharger network to all EVs, giving up a competitive advantage to help allnon-Tesla EVs have a meaningful charging network. The government is cooperating because that would be infinitely cheaper than being forced to build its own charging network.

Even with the re-enabling of subsidies for Tesla, how is that half the purchase price????

Porschetech3

TIFIFY..

bdronsick

Fed is underwriting every aspect of EV from cradle, charging, and to grave; $10K purchase discount is the smallest aspect of the EV boondoggle

GC996

For sure.

bdronsick

No free lunch. ICE carbon emissions is here to stay. So are the economic and environmental EV disasters. Acclimate to them both