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This one maybe an excellent driver. With the targa flexibility a great grocery getter. Not a garage Queen 👸. 12k mile engine replacement from Porsche. As long as it drains right not a bad choice for a car that gives you more storage options.
if anyone believed this is true they should be putting money in it. Not any different than the $10k and $5k i put in apple and Microsoft respectively in 2009, numbers are black and white and don’t lie. That $15k combined investment is worth over $2 million today. It is what it is, some are sinking a lot of money into crypto, I’m putting money in the stocks and business i believe are the future. Nursing homes, cementeries, funeral homes, elderly health care facilities, to each his own, but numbers will always be black and white.
I am seeing a big move toward cremation which will negatively impact funeral home revenues going forward by eliminating the barbaric custom of "laying out" dead people for all to see at great expense to the estate.
if anyone believed this is true they should be putting money in it. Not any different than the $10k and $5k i put in apple and Microsoft respectively in 2009, numbers are black and white and don’t lie. That $15k combined investment is worth over $2 million today. It is what it is, some are sinking a lot of money into crypto, I’m putting money in the stocks and business i believe are the future. Nursing homes, cementeries, funeral homes, elderly health care facilities, to each his own, but numbers will always be black and white.
What does this have to do with car prices!??
BTW, it's ironic to say that numbers don't lie.
AAPL absolute lowest stock price in 2009: $2.84 (no way you were that lucky). Closed today at $170.03.
$10k in 2009 = $598,697 today.
MSFT. Absolute lowest in 2009: $16.12. Closed today at $277.33.
$5k in 2009 = $86,557 today.
Grand total of: $685,254 (maximum, assuming perfect timing)
So Impressive to be sure, but not close to $2M. You may want to spend less time trying to show off about finances on a car forum, and more time checking your portfolio.
AAPL absolute lowest stock price in 2009: $2.84 (no way you were that lucky). Closed today at $170.03.
$10k in 2009 = $598,697 today.
MSFT. Absolute lowest in 2009: $16.12. Closed today at $277.33.
$5k in 2009 = $86,557 today.
Grand total of: $685,254 (maximum, assuming perfect timing)
So Impressive to be sure, but not close to $2M. You may want to spend less time trying to show off about finances on a car forum, and more time checking your portfolio.
Dont know how you are running your calculations Apple since has split twice once was 4 for 1 the other one was 7 for 1. With dividend reinvestments shares are bought the same date the dividends are paid. I don’t remember correctly but I believe Microsoft had split also. When I buy stocks I set a budget. Then I split the purchases into different transactions because I never know when it’s going to be lowest price so I buy in blocks trying to average out a lower cost per share. If I recalled correctly I split the Apple buys into 5 $2000 blocks. Right now I’m actually selling my biggest position COP, I’m not exiting it, I’m just building dry powder to buy something else. Probably also get a great deal on a house if things get worst in the next 18 to 24 months. I may have had additional money invested in both positions before. And yes the total amount has gone down because both stocks are down this year. Vanguard functionality doesn’t allow me check exact dates as I converted an original 401k into and IRA and then into a Roth IRA. Fidelity does but the 100 percent stock investment accounts the regular and Roth are at vanguard since originally it was cheaper to trade with vanguard.
Last edited by 3/98 911 coupe; 08-26-2022 at 08:08 AM.
I am seeing a big move toward cremation which will negatively impact funeral home revenues going forward by eliminating the barbaric custom of "laying out" dead people for all to see at great expense to the estate.
yes cremations are increasing. My own i want to be at dignity Memorial 5 minutes from my house. Now They have packages that will hold your body until your family and friends can get here. Then they’ll prepare the body for viewing on my case one hour maximum of 12 people capacity in a custom room, and then they’ll cremate you. I have already written this and informed my family. Anyway this package still was going to cost $3500 that cost was in 2000. Dignity is a big company and they have their own freezers and crematories. I get what your saying and it’s true. My wife didn’t wanted her father cremated 5 years ago, that one was $13000. I had to finance that thing. My sisters with the body flown from Dallas to PR December 2020, $8500. My uncle and godfather tried to tell my mom to cremate her, my mom refused. Anyway I was on a surprise birthday visit to my mother in Puerto Rico while my sister passed, anyway long story short I finished spending over six weeks in Puerto Rico and realizing then that i was hording my money thats when I decided to get the first Porsche. So every time I drive both of them I think about my sister. Since her passing we do multiple vacations per year, buy nicer things for the house, go out to eat more often and to nicer places. The idea that you can’t take your money with you became “Real”.
Yep, I still don't care.
And this still has nothing to do with anything on rennlist.
Have you tried actually looking for financial forums?
And maybe alcohol/cholesterol fanclub forums?
You're in the wrong place.
Lets be fair here….you spent time trying to be cute and call him out in his stock play and didn’t even factor in splits.
I agree the chatter is way off topic and silly, but your attempt at making him look foolish backfired.
According to the Motley Fool folks, $1000 invested in AAPL in 2010 is worth $18,400 in (May) 2022. Microsoft's own return calculator shows $1000 invested in 2009 being worth $16,747 today.
'Branded' as in lemon law. After which some lucky souls got it at a bargain price and added 60K miles or so, which to me nullifies the branding. Fresh engine 16K miles ago, installed by a Porsche dealer, doesn't hurt one bit. Seller was very active too. I wonder why it didn't pull a few more $.
on the 996 generation the engine is the same. The differences I know are wider body, turbo brakes, heavier, awd. On the 997 the C4S gets the more power. So what differences I am missing , or don’t know about. Insights will be appreciated.
Well, that is the common "internet" underrating established statement about the C4S... as if a car was only its engine.
In reality there is much more effort put behind the development of the C4S than only "aesthetics".
From Autoweek in 2002: "We have given up an almost imperceptible tick in acceleration against the Carrera in favor of more grip and better brakes," says project engineer Georg Wahl. Measured by a lap on the old Nurburgring’s north loop, the C4S shaves four seconds from the C2’s time, according to Wahl. Stat freaks note: The C4S runs the 12.8-mile Nordschleife in 8:16 seconds (92.9 mph), the Turbo in 7:56 (96.8 mph) and the damn-the-electronics, 456-hp, two-wheel-drive GT2 in 7:44 (99.3 mph). We don’t know about the Nurburgring, but we did try the C4S on sweet alpine roads through intermittent drizzle and flurries in Italy’s far north. From sun to shade, slick to dry, it doesn’t matter much. The transitions are smooth, seamless and free of anxiety, and the C4S is unflappable. With a little more tire than the C2, this may be the best-handling 911 ever"
For the record, these times, (and the C2 8':20") were set by Porsche's prime test drive at the time, Roland Kussmaul
The aerodynamic work is just one where to begin, with specific air flow around and under the car (specific front lip and center air outlet for an inverted Bernoulli to increase the load, specific rear spoiler deployment with more angle for the same, etc). We can be picky or not, but is not "for free" for Porsche to make such subtle an specific adaptations to a car.
But also in the chassis there is a lot of specific work and many differences regarding a C2/C4 (even with sport suspension):
From Excellence 2002:
"You can't just bolt the Turbo's suspension and the brakes to the Carrera 4S chassis and expect the car to perform properly because the C4S weigs about 70 kilograms less than the Turbo" explains Georg Whal, [suspension responsible for the project].
"In lieu of Turbo spring rates, Wahl selected coils 10 percent less stiff. They also have less pre-load to accommodate the C4S' lighter weight. On the other hand, these non-progressively wound springs are 20 percent stiffer than the sport suspension coils optinally available on teh 911 Carrera 4. Finally, the shorter Carrera 4S springs drop the ride height by four tenths of an inch below that of a standard European Carrera 4. [...]
"The anti-roll bars are hollow, like those on the Turbo, for added weight savings. Diameters are the same up front for both cars, while the rear bar on the C4S is 1mm smaller than that of the Turbo. Also the walls of the rear anti-roll bar on the C4S are thinner than those of the Turbo as well, at 2.8 mm versus 3.0mm. These changes add up to a 20-percent reduction in roll stiffness from the rear bar of the Turbo compared to that of the C4S. Bilstein makes the nirogen gas, twin-tube front shock absorbers as well as the single-tube rear shocks. Again, the shock valving has been tailored to the specific weight requirements of the C4S with settings that are stiffer than those found on a Carrera 4 with the optional sport suspension package. When pressed for details, Whal says the damping characteristics are compromised toward sport"
"The Carrera 4S is also helped in the handling department by its wider track widths. It gains 0.3 inch of track width up front over the narrow-body 911 and a whopping 1.9 inches in the back. The front track of a narrow-bodied 996 measures 57.7 inches compare to 58.0 inches for the C4S, while the rear track increases to 60.2 inches from 58.3 inches. Other key elements to the C4S handling advantage are its bigger wheels and tires. Though you can order a Carrera coupe with optional 18-inch (18x8 and 18x10) and matching tires, you'll still fall short of the standard wheels and wider stance of the C4S"
And last, anogher paragraph that I like a lot from CAR Magazine UK in the C4S test closing:
"I've got my mental list of Top Ten Great Drives of All time in my head, and those three hours in the Carrera 4S are now firmly fixed in the top three. If I had the money I'd go out and buy one of these things tomorrow and drive it every single day of the year. Less scary than the GT2, more focused than the regular C2 coupe, I reckon the new Carrera 4S is the most useable 911 you can buy. And north or south, wet or dry, it makes no difference: it's also one of the most accomplished all-weather sports cars in the world"
So, if after many years in this forum (and others), we still think that the "S" is just justified after an upgraded engine... I don't think we have learned a lot
Well, that is the common "internet" underrating established statement about the C4S... as if a car was only its engine.
In reality there is much more effort put behind the development of the C4S than only "aesthetics".
From Autoweek in 2002: "We have given up an almost imperceptible tick in acceleration against the Carrera in favor of more grip and better brakes," says project engineer Georg Wahl. Measured by a lap on the old Nurburgring’s north loop, the C4S shaves four seconds from the C2’s time, according to Wahl. Stat freaks note: The C4S runs the 12.8-mile Nordschleife in 8:16 seconds (92.9 mph), the Turbo in 7:56 (96.8 mph) and the damn-the-electronics, 456-hp, two-wheel-drive GT2 in 7:44 (99.3 mph). We don’t know about the Nurburgring, but we did try the C4S on sweet alpine roads through intermittent drizzle and flurries in Italy’s far north. From sun to shade, slick to dry, it doesn’t matter much. The transitions are smooth, seamless and free of anxiety, and the C4S is unflappable. With a little more tire than the C2, this may be the best-handling 911 ever"
For the record, these times, (and the C2 8':20") were set by Porsche's prime test drive at the time, Roland Kussmaul
The aerodynamic work is just one where to begin, with specific air flow around and under the car (specific front lip and center air outlet for an inverted Bernoulli to increase the load, specific rear spoiler deployment with more angle for the same, etc). We can be picky or not, but is not "for free" for Porsche to make such subtle an specific adaptations to a car.
But also in the chassis there is a lot of specific work and many differences regarding a C2/C4 (even with sport suspension):
From Excellence 2002:
"You can't just bolt the Turbo's suspension and the brakes to the Carrera 4S chassis and expect the car to perform properly because the C4S weigs about 70 kilograms less than the Turbo" explains Georg Whal, [suspension responsible for the project].
"In lieu of Turbo spring rates, Wahl selected coils 10 percent less stiff. They also have less pre-load to accommodate the C4S' lighter weight. On the other hand, these non-progressively wound springs are 20 percent stiffer than the sport suspension coils optinally available on teh 911 Carrera 4. Finally, the shorter Carrera 4S springs drop the ride height by four tenths of an inch below that of a standard European Carrera 4. [...]
"The anti-roll bars are hollow, like those on the Turbo, for added weight savings. Diameters are the same up front for both cars, while the rear bar on the C4S is 1mm smaller than that of the Turbo. Also the walls of the rear anti-roll bar on the C4S are thinner than those of the Turbo as well, at 2.8 mm versus 3.0mm. These changes add up to a 20-percent reduction in roll stiffness from the rear bar of the Turbo compared to that of the C4S. Bilstein makes the nirogen gas, twin-tube front shock absorbers as well as the single-tube rear shocks. Again, the shock valving has been tailored to the specific weight requirements of the C4S with settings that are stiffer than those found on a Carrera 4 with the optional sport suspension package. When pressed for details, Whal says the damping characteristics are compromised toward sport"
"The Carrera 4S is also helped in the handling department by its wider track widths. It gains 0.3 inch of track width up front over the narrow-body 911 and a whopping 1.9 inches in the back. The front track of a narrow-bodied 996 measures 57.7 inches compare to 58.0 inches for the C4S, while the rear track increases to 60.2 inches from 58.3 inches. Other key elements to the C4S handling advantage are its bigger wheels and tires. Though you can order a Carrera coupe with optional 18-inch (18x8 and 18x10) and matching tires, you'll still fall short of the standard wheels and wider stance of the C4S"
And last, anogher paragraph that I like a lot from CAR Magazine UK in the C4S test closing:
"I've got my mental list of Top Ten Great Drives of All time in my head, and those three hours in the Carrera 4S are now firmly fixed in the top three. If I had the money I'd go out and buy one of these things tomorrow and drive it every single day of the year. Less scary than the GT2, more focused than the regular C2 coupe, I reckon the new Carrera 4S is the most useable 911 you can buy. And north or south, wet or dry, it makes no difference: it's also one of the most accomplished all-weather sports cars in the world"
So, if after many years in this forum (and others), we still think that the "S" is just justified after an upgraded engine... I don't think we have learned a lot
pretty good read. I like the experience behind the steering wheel. So driving wise I really like my two cars a 99 early coupe and the 03 turbo. For a bit extra money I get a turbo and there is no comparison. In the end is about like and preferences. You like a C4S go for it, it’s your money. I have never owned a C4S but all the ones I have driven including a low mileage 03 C4S have never impressed me, now that car was gorgeous because it looked like bumble bee with sport seats , deviated stitching and a speed yellow console, with yellow gauges. I lean towards money for performance so more than likely C4S would never be in my universe unless it was a smoking deal, which we know that they are normally not .
08-25-2022, 06:08 PM
If you are looking for a driver
