MarinS4

Was looking at my Audi S6 calipers a few mins ago. They're black but not shiny black. Not quite flat black either. Almost like they're going for a pure iron look or something like that.

My car is pretty dirty so this is how best pic I could find. They look very similar to these.

Coleman

Some quick color studies-

nothingbutgt3

Nice, you put bbs gold centers!

Cup cars had calipers painted black


This is the inly 993 Carrera Supercup I could find painted in Pastel Yellow, which is a lighter point of yellow


Detail of the 993 CUP black caliper

Then the BBS gold centers someone told me they wouldn't match the Summer/Lime yellow of the body...honestly I don't really know what to expect, but to me the classic BBS racing wheels have BBS gold centers, almost as if there were not painted, but the color of the metal itself.
So to me it is pointless asking if the BBS gold would fit or not, since the color is an iconic part of the wheels by itself.
Behind the centers, apart from red and bronze of Motorsport brembo brakes, I like them both, I see now possible only the black color (and probably I am limited, please don't blame me)

On the otherside I saw many Porsche genuine brake calipers on 996 turbo and GT3 becoming dark red, while the black always remains more or less the same.
I think for me the best at least at first is restore the car in all her parts to original specs, and that's what I am doing for the mechanical part and for all the subsystems, including the suspensions.
Then, the sooner - the better, introducing the changes, where and if requested, but not for fancyness, only the ones very much performance related, the MCS suspensions for sure.

If a Step 2 of the engine, which means a completely new and very powerful second engine, will ever see the sun light, then it will be requested also a much more powerful braking system.
In this case, it would be very desireable to go for ceramic composite brake rotors, to compensate the bigger dimensions by reducing some more the overall rotors and brake calipers weight, despite the bigger dimensions.
But this is just fantasy, I must stay with feet on the ground and point to put the car on the road, then we'll see!
It is for me an enormous effort already bringing her back on the road in the Step 1 Configuration, having eventual further developments is for now just a nice perspective/eventuality/dream.

Just to give a small example of what this color looks like in the sun, photographed by a pro

Coleman

I agree with the idea that the gold centers will clash a bit with the yellow body- here's the color studies in the cup wheels in silver-

nothingbutgt3

I finally got the Rennline Monoball Camber plates, to make a gift to Silverina and complete the RS set up.
I was wondering if anyone here had already installed these hardware together with the Bilstein PSS10: I ask because the packaging was full of different spacers and nuts, and I wanted to avoid making mistakes, i. e. install the hardware the best possible way fron the very beginning.
I saw there are 18 M8 SS plugs that I think are there with the solely role to fullfill the empty unused threads, since the plates are adaptable for different types of 911, let's say they are programmable like a bench.

I was thinking to put some loctite blu on the small SS plugs threads, to avoid them to unscrew due to vibrations at some point in the future.
I think their function is also to provide the material continuity, but maybe I am. just fantasizing.

I also noticed that using the threads that on the scheme are for the 993, the camber can be adjusted from position 0, which is with the strut spindle exactly in the geometrical center of the plate, to a position distant only 2 notches (reffering to the scale on the plate).

I don't know how much negative camber this would represent/allow.


With PSS10 what hardware do I have to use and in which place?


Here you can see the maximum adjustment: upper camber plate the one I called Position "0", which should represent the position of minimum camber, lower camber plate what accordingly to the rennline instructions seems to be the maximum negative camber position

NineMeister

The Rennline parts are beautifully made, but not technically correct for the 993RS & Clubsport because they are symmetrical about the mounting centreline. The correct RS parts are handed left & right with the spherical bearing offset towards the rear to increase the castor of the strut.

A similar observation can be made when comparing the stock 993 mount with the 964 mount.

cgfen

Since you raised the issue.
I've been told that if one swaps the stock 993 top strut mounts left to right and right to left, that one can gain a bit of extra camber adjustment (yes, I know you wrote castor)
True?
False?
"old wife's tale"?

nothingbutgt3

Yes Colin,
I noticed that, the top mount is not slightly moved forward as it is the stock rubber one I would like to change.
Another difference I noticed, this time with the original RS top mounts, is that the strut somewhat rotate while moving transversally, while here it only can move transversally, like on parallel binaries, orthogonal to the longitudinal vehicle line.
How can this aspect play a role?

And what could/would be a CNC exact replica of the original top mount, maybe with some improvement, like at BBi did with their RS CNC wheel carriers?

cobalt

Did the RS use the same plates as the RSR?

This is the RSR plate.

nothingbutgt3

The way the camber can be set is quite different, thank you for the picture Cobalt: it is evident the original top mount plates have a fulcrum (in this picture is the bolt on the right side, working as a pivot) while the other 2 volts on the left part of the picture are moving on a round line, while the rennline plates have a straight line.

I am not very expert of the field, but this should mean that:
- on the RS Porsche Genuine mounts, while increasing the negative CAMBER, also the CASTER is slightly change with a posite increase (towards the back of the car), because by rotating the whole top mount assembly, meanwhile the top of the shock moves backwards

- on the rennline mounts, while increasing the negative camber, the caster doesn't change, i.e. doesn't inrease positively (towards the back of the car), and it starts from a "0" configuration which as Colin pointed out is already slightly with less caster angle.

I honestly don't know how all the above would affect the set up of the car, this is a matter for few of you RLers super GURU, such a Colin (Ninemeister), Anthony (Cobalt), Bill Vergurg, and and those few others who by banging their heads several times have finally somehow come to sip knowledge from the chalice of the gods and so are now able to handle it with awareness and relative tranquility.

I know very well that these are asylum questions for them, by the way here there is a visual comparison between the Top Mount of the 3 ways adj. Motioncontrolsuspension that will be installed on Limoncella, and the Rennline plates I took to complete the monoball set up on Silverina


it is visible, but very small difference. I am wondering now why Rennline decided to go this way, since they also must know about this specific technical detail, so there must be a technical reason behind this choice, or?!



Measuring the distance with a ruler between the studs from which I removed the nuts, with an accuracy more or less of half a millimeter , there must be a misalignment of about 7/8 mm
So while the Rennline mounts have the top of the strut exactly in the geometrical center of the plate, the MCS ones have a positive caster corrispondent to these 7/8mm of misalignment, which reflects the original geometry of the RS top mounts and also the original geometry of the rubber ones, even if also here the sliding possibility towards more negative camber doesn't increase also the caster as is for the RS top munts

nothingbutgt3

Next week is a very important one for the project: finally the rightside front longitudinal subframe from the desired m.y. 96 and model will be here and will be prepared for installation.
At the same time the order of the many missing tiny bits useful and requested to take in place the fuel, brake, electrical lines will be placed and consequently the final assembly will see a consistent step forward.

I also asked the guys at the coacbbuilder shop to install the firewall that is behind the fuel tank, since it holds in place also the fuse boxe and without it it isn't possible to proceed with the definitive harness installation.

The M030 shocks coming from a 45k kms 1st german owner 993 turbo have been checked, one of the rear shocks needed a minor fix, since the spindle inside the shock was rattlin just a bit (probably who removed them and upgraded them to the H&R springs used an impact wrench, which thing is clearly not recommended to do, since this can lead to unscrew the spindle inside the shock).

The shocks were coupled to H&R shortened springs, I don't know if these are really fine for a 993 N/A, since they were originally designed for a 993 turbo, which car is much heavier and with a monster torque to be faced by the rear shocks.
I will give them a try, for the very short period (few months) the car will have to be at the public office to get the 18 inch wheels omologated, since it can't be a real tribute to a 993 RS Clubsport - 993 CUP not wearing the 18" wheels.
​​​​​

71-3.0-911

What are the numbers on the springs? If it's 29953, you're golden.

nothingbutgt3

We never stop to "learn"

until a week ago I had no idea what the caster angle could mean, and even now I made myself a very slight idea of what it is, but I will try to describe it with my words.

Basically there are three angles:

Toe
Camber
Caster

Let's say the car has a set up with 0 caster: while turning the wheels, the camber doesn't change

​​​​​​Instead, if we set the car with a slightly negative caster angle, and a - 1,5 camber angle, while turning to the right, the left wheel sees the negative camber increase and the right wheel (internal in the turn) sees the negative camber decrease.

So basically, the idea I made myself is that the negative caster angle allows a negative camber gain at cornering, exactly on the wheel that has the load, to provide a better load surface.
To get the same negative camber with a 0 caster, one should set up the car with an higher camber, which thing makes the car much more unstable in the straights and less effective in the hard braking.

I hope someone will correct me if I wrote something wrong.

So the fact the 993 has a front top mount (in both rubber and solid config.) with a negative caster angle from stock and the fact that the solid plates have a caster gain while moving the monoball top mount towards a more negative camber setting, to me means at Porsche they considered important having a nice camber at cornering, but also a slightly lower camber in all the other situations.

This cinematic scheme for sure allows more set up possibilities.

nothingbutgt3

29598 on both front and rear

k722070

change in camber due to caster won't matter much on a track car(if that is what you are building) because outside garage, paddock and grid you won't be turning the wheel enough to matter.
your camber setup will depend on the tires you choose.
caster you can adjust during a practice session to find what you like, just try max, middle and min setting between sessions.
you'll find shops and mechanic will suggest 6 degrees or highest possible because that is what the newer cars use.
for me the absolute minimum caster setting was best.
there should be RSR alignment setting numbers in this forum, until you find that here's the gt2 sheet
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-turb...fications.html
notice how low the caster is.
my notes read the RSR caster is similar, workshop manual says RS caster is 5'20" so right in middle.