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change in camber due to caster won't matter much on a track car(if that is what you are building) because outside garage, paddock and grid you won't be turning the wheel enough to matter.
your camber setup will depend on the tires you choose.
caster you can adjust during a practice session to find what you like, just try max, middle and min setting between sessions.
you'll find shops and mechanic will suggest 6 degrees or highest possible because that is what the newer cars use.
for me the absolute minimum caster setting was best.
there should be RSR alignment setting numbers in this forum, until you find that here's the gt2 sheet https://rennlist.com/forums/993-turb...fications.html
notice how low the caster is.
my notes read the RSR caster is similar, workshop manual says RS caster is 5'20" so right in middle.
Thank you for this contribute, I was imagining that on the track the camber gain thorugh the negative caster wouldn't be that much important, being the degrees in the turns not important, but at the same time the position of the top mount, even if without caster gain while increasing the negative camber, wouldn't be better if designed with the negative caster setting as the 993 has from origin (also in the rubber configuration)?
I am now waiting for what the seller claimed to be racing top mounts, I would like to see if the plates can be coupled to the Rennline monoball hat.
Last edited by nothingbutgt3; 06-23-2022 at 03:21 PM.
I have a question for the most expert in the coachbuilder field: what was the color of the VIN number in the original Porsche layout?
The 993s I've seen so far have a paper onto that field, but what's the color underneath it?
I have a black car and the inside of the Frunk is sort of a primer gray, the upper arches of the wheel wells and fenders are black though- the VIN plate matches the primer gray, and people have said that there's a plastic film over the VIN on the plate, but I can't tell if mine has a film or not, I can't find any edges and it doesn't seem to have any clear decal over it...
change in camber due to caster won't matter much on a track car(if that is what you are building) because outside garage, paddock and grid you won't be turning the wheel enough to matter.
your camber setup will depend on the tires you choose.
caster you can adjust during a practice session to find what you like, just try max, middle and min setting between sessions.
you'll find shops and mechanic will suggest 6 degrees or highest possible because that is what the newer cars use.
for me the absolute minimum caster setting was best.
there should be RSR alignment setting numbers in this forum, until you find that here's the gt2 sheet https://rennlist.com/forums/993-turb...fications.html
notice how low the caster is.
my notes read the RSR caster is similar, workshop manual says RS caster is 5'20" so right in middle.
Your answer is very full of juicy infos, but this camber plates I was talking of are going to be installed on the silver 993, which has a full 993 RS suspension set up, apart from the shocks, which are Bilstein B16 PSS10, and the front top mounts, which are the stock rubber ones.
I would like to complete the monoball RS set up, and I was more for the Rennline because they sell a kit that allows to couple them with the PSS10 coilover system, where it seems the spindle of these shocks are too short to be coupled to the original RS camber plates.
I got now both the options on the table: the genuine Porsche monoball have been told by the seller to be from a 993 CUP car (hence they are used, but I couldn't notice any play in the monoball), while the RENNLINE are brand new.
I should have a so called set of TOSI nuts somewhere, but I am sill wondering if using such a tightening system could make some part of the assembly fail.
Upper side the Genuine Porsche 993 CUP front mounts, lower part the same equivalent prt made by RENNLINE. thoughts?
Last edited by nothingbutgt3; 07-14-2022 at 03:04 PM.
the porsche version that pivots is supposed to be better for geometry reasons.
Tarett makes those still, quality products, and provides a short explanation https://tarett.com/products/front-camber-plate-964-015 The unique housing design positions the strut top on the arc that allows for camber adjustment without effecting caster.
you could also contact Tarett and ask if they know the limitations of camber with those plates.
I remember it being limited, like under 3.0 or less, but it has been ages.
pretty cool to have an original version of those plates no matter what.
the porsche version that pivots is supposed to be better for geometry reasons.
Tarett makes those still, quality products, and provides a short explanation https://tarett.com/products/front-camber-plate-964-015 The unique housing design positions the strut top on the arc that allows for camber adjustment without effecting caster.
you could also contact Tarett and ask if they know the limitations of camber with those plates.
I remember it being limited, like under 3.0 or less, but it has been ages.
pretty cool to have an original version of those plates no matter what.
I couldn't expect to find used 993 CUP/RSR front camber plates and monoball mounts, so I think I will give them a try.
Now I am also dealing with modifications to the mufflers: considering the car will be fitted with her original primaries, her original cat box with exchanged CAT inserts with brand new 100 cells HJS Motorsport, how would it be advisable to modify the muffler with the solely target of gaining a better flow/better performance?
what about the sound deadening material inside, with which material should I replace the original one? will the original one be reusable?
I found some pictures from a very nice contribute from B. Verburg, useful to get an idea of how mods are performed.
I honestly have no idea if there are other mod-ways of the 993 mufflers and I was wondering if there are pictures of how a muffler should be modified to get better performance (I don't know if the RSR ones have the best flow, but I suppose they do)
Sound here is not the theme/target, with a 100 cells cats configuration I would like to modify the mufflers in a way that they are sportier allowing better performance, pf course remaining with a no drone sound.
the 4,5 years aged underwater mufflers should look exactly this way inside.
This is called "common mod", from what I could see and understand the internal bypass duct passes from 3/4" to 1 1/2 " diameter, providing an ease for the flow to move from entry to exit
here the flow should happen much easier, being the internal end side's of entry and exit connected directly by introducing a duct of the same diameter, part of which perforated similarly to the inlet section
Again, the knowledge of how a CUP/RSR muffler was inside I suspect is for the few who had the chance to open one of them, so I have no idea if any of the twl mpdified mufflers above replicates the priginal shape of the RSR ones, but I suspect they must be made in a way to increase the performance as much as possible, the louder sound being eventually is a consequence of that.
Last edited by nothingbutgt3; 07-18-2022 at 01:32 PM.
Hi Paolo, maybe contact Darin Fister @ FD Motorsports to get answers you need? I’m sure you’ve heard of Fister 2’s, 3’s etc. He’s the guy. Shipping is probably the big deal for you on these, but I know he does ship international. I had a set of RSR’s, and they were underwhelming. I now have Fister 2’s, which sound just right to me. My days of a loud 911 are in the past, so I don’t feel the need for 3’s. I also feel they just increase your chance of talking to the police, when driven on the street.
Originally Posted by nothingbutgt3
I couldn't expect to find used 993 CUP/RSR front camber plates and monoball mounts, so I think I will give them a try.
Now I am also dealing with modifications to the mufflers: considering the car will be fitted with her original primaries, her original cat box with exchanged CAT inserts with brand new 100 cells HJS Motorsport, how would it be advisable to modify the muffler with the solely target of gaining a better flow/better performance?
what about the sound deadening material inside, with which material should I replace the original one? will the original one be reusable?
I found some pictures from a very nice contribute from B. Verburg, useful to get an idea of how mods are performed.
I honestly have no idea if there are other mod-ways of the 993 mufflers and I was wondering if there are pictures of how a muffler should be modified to get better performance (I don't know if the RSR ones have the best flow, but I suppose they do)
Sound here is not the theme/target, with a 100 cells cats configuration I would like to modify the mufflers in a way that they are sportier allowing better performance, pf course remaining with a no drone sound.
the 4,5 years aged underwater mufflers should look exactly this way inside.
This is called "common mod", from what I could see and understand the internal bypass duct passes from 3/4" to 1 1/2 " diameter, providing an ease for the flow to move from entry to exit
here the flow should happen much easier, being the internal end side's of entry and exit connected directly by introducing a duct of the same diameter, part of which perforated similarly to the inlet section
Again, the knowledge of how a CUP/RSR muffler was inside I suspect is for the few who had the chance to open one of them, so I have no idea if any of the twl mpdified mufflers above replicates the priginal shape of the RSR ones, but I suspect they must be made in a way to increase the performance as much as possible, the louder sound being eventually is a consequence of that.
Yes, of Course FD Motorsport is the go to highway, but the philosophy of the Limoncella rebuild, at least at first, is to re-use what is 100% reusable, eventually modifying it, not just and not only for budget reasons, but much more for the DIY and common way Enthusiasts try to see their enthusiasm applied.
I had the full exhaust at a very well known exhaust shop, but then accross my "travels" I met a guy who later become kind of a friend and talking to him he told me he has a diploma as carpenter, plus he is also very much into such things (way more than me, which is easy, myself being a total beginner), so much that he rebuilt a Fiat 500 from sketch, basically rebuilding a brand new one, and listening to my project he offered his help.
I couldn't say no, I like so much doing the things myself or at least watching while things are getting done: this is one of the rarest things, I think, because who works in the field (tinsmith, coachbuilder, engineshop, etc.) don't want people around, not even the owner.
I've been lucky, I must say, I met very skilled professionals, who offered me the unique opportunity of being present in the exact moment they were performing their "magic", hence the possibility, only thank to their availability, to document the different phases on the Instagram Account, where just a small portion of all the pictures and videos took place, not to annoy the people watching.
But yes, if anything changes because someone brings in some advices that suggest to go otherway, I think "we" will go the so called "even better common mod" way, at some point one must dissolve the delay and produce a result, possibly to be changed, but perhaps not.
I still need informations about the sound deadening material inside the mufflers, maybe I will ask Darin about that.
Thank you Ed for your kind and solicit answer, I don't care how louder the muffler can become, she is going to be a very sporty car, so what counts is that she will be allowed on the tracks, but with 100 Cells cat inserts and the mufflers, with a little more or a little less sound deadening (but I think it is important the material and eventually, I suspect it is a very resistant material, the one aged underwater maybe can be re-used?) I think it will not play such a big role in the final result, performance related.
That's kind of one of the points of my response-Darin has seen the insides of more mufflers than anyone on this planet, both stock and aftermarket. He can answer your questions.
As to application, I think the 2's saved me some weight, and have a bit more flow than stock. I'm skeptical when aftermarket mufflers post about "15 HP gains".
I am also searching for the DIY tutorial on how the DME engine harness of m. y. 94-95 must be changed in order to use it on the Varioram 96-97-98 engine types.
this rennlister DIY is mentioned here and there, but I didn't find it inside the 993 DIY folder.
Hi Paolo, I trust you found this one? Although the OP is no no longer posting several of the responders seem to have done this mod and may respond to a DM.
Yes, of Course FD Motorsport is the go to highway, but the philosophy of the Limoncella rebuild, at least at first, is to re-use what is 100% reusable, eventually modifying it, not just and not only for budget reasons, but much more for the DIY and common way Enthusiasts try to see their enthusiasm applied.
I had the full exhaust at a very well known exhaust shop, but then accross my "travels" I met a guy who later become kind of a friend and talking to him he told me he has a diploma as carpenter, plus he is also very much into such things (way more than me, which is easy, myself being a total beginner), so much that he rebuilt a Fiat 500 from sketch, basically rebuilding a brand new one, and listening to my project he offered his help.
I couldn't say no, I like so much doing the things myself or at least watching while things are getting done: this is one of the rarest things, I think, because who works in the field (tinsmith, coachbuilder, engineshop, etc.) don't want people around, not even the owner.
I've been lucky, I must say, I met very skilled professionals, who offered me the unique opportunity of being present in the exact moment they were performing their "magic", hence the possibility, only thank to their availability, to document the different phases on the Instagram Account, where just a small portion of all the pictures and videos took place, not to annoy the people watching.
But yes, if anything changes because someone brings in some advices that suggest to go otherway, I think "we" will go the so called "even better common mod" way, at some point one must dissolve the delay and produce a result, possibly to be changed, but perhaps not. I still need informations about the sound deadening material inside the mufflers, maybe I will ask Darin about that.
Thank you Ed for your kind and solicit answer, I don't care how louder the muffler can become, she is going to be a very sporty car, so what counts is that she will be allowed on the tracks, but with 100 Cells cat inserts and the mufflers, with a little more or a little less sound deadening (but I think it is important the material and eventually, I suspect it is a very resistant material, the one aged underwater maybe can be re-used?) I think it will not play such a big role in the final result, performance related.
Do the internal modification yourself using the OEM muffler and remove the internal sound deadening... you won't regret it.
Hi Paolo, I trust you found this one? Although the OP is no no longer posting several of the responders seem to have done this mod and may respond to a DM.
Do the internal modification yourself using the OEM muffler and remove the internal sound deadening... you won't regret it.
Would you go the "common mod" way, or the "even better common mod" one? But with such mods and 100 cells highflow cat inserts, wouldn't it be too loud, removing also the sound deadening?
Hi to you all Porsche 993 enthusiasts, part of this amazing community,
I would like to update you on the progress of the recovery of this beautiful car: the reassembly path is all on my shoulders, as you know, not only in the obvious financial burdens, but above all in the honor of reassembling the car in all her functional components, and this is how in the last few days I finally managed to install the steering column, the steering lock (its original), the brake booster and the 993 RS MOMO original steering wheel, as well as the wipers mechanism.
I must confess that even the smallest progress gives great satisfaction!
In the weeks to come I will take care of connecting the joint that connects the steering column with the steering rack and immediately afterwards I will proceed with the proper cleaning of all the wire loom of the electrical system from dust and glue residues and subsequently with its meticulous fixing to the chassis, exactly as originally envisaged.
Next I will install the control units and connect the various buttons and the 5 instruments on the dashboard and connect the battery, in order to verify that the electrical system is in 100% operating functions.
While I am waiting for the original brake calipers to be returned to me (exactly those that have remained underwater for almost 5 years), I would proceed installing all the components related to the oil tank, the primary oil filter console and oil cooler.
At that point the car will finally be ready to go to the so called "wedding" of engine/gearbox assembly to the chassis, to be finally double checked in all her components and tightening torques and see the engine firing up!
In this regard, the cable of the DME control unit is no longer available at Porsche, but fluckily in Italy there is no shortage of talented and expert craftsmen: with word of mouth it has fortunately reached the ear of a meticulous man "of cars and science" who is right now replicating a 1:1 cable for the for the M64.21 engine, with all the plugs and the color of the original cables.
The original steering wheel while giving the final farewell to the place where it stayed for 23 years, from 1995 to 2018 (preview of the post that I will do today on instagram)
In this regard, after purchasing the GoPro HERO 10 with which I thought I could easily create direct streaming on Instagram, I realized that this can happen, but only with some tricks by passing through the Youtube Live Streaming platform (in this regard, is there anyone here that could help me configure that?), on which, however, to be able to make direct streaming the account needs at least 1.000 subscribers (and currently it has 238): if you could help me reach 1.000 subscribers, this would allow me to take involvement in the project and in general in the world of Porsche 993s to another level.
The youtube account is: Limoncella Projekt
Last edited by nothingbutgt3; 09-18-2022 at 04:09 AM.
06-23-2022, 03:18 PM
