TheGeneral

High ethanol content (E85) introduces a huge propensity to absorb water in the fuel/fuel system. If the fuel is constantly flushed by refueling it’s probably no biggie. But for owners whose 911 is a 2nd, 3rd or 4th car it can introduce “issues”. Additives and stabilizers help but still….

Fullyield

Good point. I thought this an odd statement also. We need to be careful we are not confusing lugging the engine v. turbo lag. The torque ban for the 3.0TT does not begin until 2600 rpm so I expect the engine to fall flat when punching it @ 2k rpm unless in 1st maybe In fact , my 991.1 would fall flat on its face for a moment if I punched it at 2k rpm in anything but 1st gear.

Hunky

"e85" blends are all over the board also. You may be getting e60 from an e85 pump but a true flex fuel system will read the ethanol concentration and advance the timing accordingly.

Hunky

Will do and actually have a mild hybrid in a new BMW M60i and can tell you that it is phenomenal, very noticeable step up from the M50i. These mild hybrids with no need to plug in are wonderfull.

Tupper

Grateful? No

Porsche should be grateful that those of us with money are buying their cars. And putting up with the dealer games to get them.

We don’t have to spend money on a pricy car. I can buy another investment property. Maybe a boat.

Porsche needs to appreciate us, the buyer. They are nothing without us. And if they end the ICE altogether in the 911, they know that they will be in serious trouble because only a minority of 911 owners would actually WANT a $150k all electric 911 when you can get a Hyundai Ionic 5 for less than half the price that’s just as fast and shares the same ubiquitous drivetrain (the same drivetrain as every ceiling fan on the planet)

Porsche knows this and that’s why every carmaker is pushing back and lobbying governments to relax their ICE bans so as to save their business. That is exactly what they should be doing, in appreciation of US—their wealthy buyers.

Mike818

FlexFuel has been around a long time. I've been running my Mitsubishi Evo 8 on E85 exclusively for over 10 years and >100k miles at >double the factory HP. I never had any issues related to moisture. I did have a problem with it dissolving my fuel pump hanger, but that was because the car wasn't designed to run on it. The car sat for over a year with E85 in the tank and it fired right up when I went to move it to make space for the 911.

Dodge figured it out https://www.dodgegarage.com/srt-demon-170

It's true the blend can be different at different locations, but that isn't really a big deal. Anything over E50 is still gaining most of the benefits of running the fuel. Gasoline isn't uniform either, god only knows what kind of power hit this new setup will take when it tries to run California craptane.

ipse dixit

Agreed, but that's really a short term solution.

At some point, if a marque like Porsche wants to push the performance envelope and remain profibtable, you can't simply increase displacement in an ICE.

Some sort of hybrid tech needs to come into play. Whether that hybrid is forced induction (turbo or supercharger) or electric assist, it's ostensibly inevitable.

We are quickly approaching the very upper limits of what is feasible for a pure ICE (whether its NA or FI), if we're not already there.

yrralis1

The American companies did push back but I don't think Porsche can . The fallout , fines , consequences , even prison sentence was such a disaster that it handicapped them moving forward for any type of opposition voice . Conceding to an ultimate EV was an act of survival.
They just had a timeline to gradually package it to make it all sound believable .

Mike818

I can't speak for Europe's regulations, but in California it's hybridization that is being mandated, not the sensationalized "Death of the ICE". The vehicle will simply need to be capable of Pure EV operation some of the time.

So PHEV is inevitable but advancements in manufacturing technology make it pretty clear that ICE has a lot of runway to improve. It wasn't long ago that rockets were basically throw away.

That's basically saying every ICE is the same as a lawn mower. I get that you are not interested / enthusiastic about the technology, but that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of differences and nuance to each approach / implementation.

dudeoverthere

i was at nearly 12,000 feet this weekend and my 992.1 was gasphing for breath as i went to pass someone until the turbo spooled. they pulled out in front of me and were doing about 15 mph, so it's not like i was in any sort of power band.

actually interested to see how the new 3.6L with electric assist turbo will do in that situation. i live at 8,000' so the idea is intruiging.

Hunky

This is extremely well stated. Excellent points made here looking through a prism of reality. "every ceiling fan on the planet", that is f'n hilarious Man.

jhenson29

Time to full boost is a huge difference between punching it at 2k vs the appropriate gear (e.g. 4K+). I was testing and watching on my way to work this morning. I’m not saying the new GTS isn’t measurably quicker (so let’s measure it) at building boost at higher rpm’s also, but it’s likely not 2 sec quicker as I don’t know that’s its 2 sec total for the .1 GTS at higher rpm.

Mike818

IIRC they mention this engine is using SAS which is anti-lag technology from rally car racing. So how much that is reducing lag plus the assist from the electric motor is TBD I guess.

f4bones

Had a VERY interesting discussion today while at M-Engineering in S. Florida doing the custom tune on my 4.5L Deman 992 GT3 Touring - I expressed my concern that this next gen of technology would signal the end of aftermarket tuning. They disagreed with the statement, and felt that they will be able to access to tables for the new e-turbos and hybrid drives. In fact, the tables for some of these technologies already exist in the 992.1 ECUs - been in the works for some time it seems. According to ME, the new e-turbo is a TOTAL game changer, and VERY exciting technology that they are eager to tune. They have an order placed for one of the first 992.2 GTSs . . . let's hope their optimism pans out and they are able to access the tuning tables for this new platform. If so, the 992.2 generation should be eye-watering - if we can uncork that powerplant, I'm sure the results will be amazing. I feel better, and least for now!

VintageRacer

You guys are still nuts. You engineering guys are smoking more pot than ever before.

Porsche will survive in North America only if they throttle back in their USA goals. I don't care about the EU as their economy is very close to a massive recession.
This may be the worst damage to stock prices since the Chevrolet Vega.