Ikone

This^

Plus the references to F1 are not taking into account that with each race, you have a very good idea of how much power/fuel is needed. It's a science. And the cars are configured/tuned for each race in advance. Can't compare this to spirited driving through the mountains for a couple of hours, or even the weekend warrior tracking it.

Tobeit

I am not really sure what you want to tell me here...my point is hybrid technology is moving fast and what we see is just the beginning. Will it stop full EV cars - no. But some manufacturers like Toyota consider hybrid more important than full EV for the foreseeable future. They claim the environmental footprint of hybrids are better than EV. My thought - no matter what politics or environmental drivers we will have, we will eventually all go to EV but it may take longer than anybody thought and the reason is simple - oil reserves will not last forever. Regardless of the environmental impact, renewable energy sources (solar, wind, water etc) will always be there to harvest, oil not so much and drilling/fracking for oil becomes more and more expense while renewables will become cheaper and cheaper. The odd ball is nuclear and fusion power - both can provide plenty of what we may need but sure are not w/o issues. Point made - EV adoption will be a neccessity at some point as energy sources from cars can't come from ICE's forever and energy from renewables or nuclear/fusion is centralized and distribution is most likley due to charging on-board batteries. Question is how long will it take. Until then, I enjoy the ride.

Hunky

Election results and sentiment in Europe is now very much against the Rainbows and Unicorns green eutopia policy that is grossly unrealistic and downright stupid. You don't power heavy industries and the like with windmills, not even remotely close. Europe is a disaster now, been there several times in past couple years and it is a mess on numerous levels.

CamsPorsche

Likely a small sample take as I get my information from insiders here in the GTA. A bit of smoke and mirrors at the moment...

aggie57

Oh hell, I flick to the last page of this thread and see the same people making the same comments about electrification. Another thread down the oil industry FUD rabbit hole.

yrralis1

Sheesh .. they really got you on board .

1) Take a look at an 8 year old iPhone . It's beyond antiquated compared to the newest , Technology evolves fast as you did state . Take a look at an 8 yea old 911, Macan , Cayenne , etc . Even though the 24 models are revised the actual engine components are modern enough in the older car to still be relevant . Thats said a 200K high tech. EV or hybrid will be nearly WORTHLESS in 8 years . In fact your 16 year old ICE car might even surpass it in value .

2) Who says we cant have ICE cars indefinitely ? Some opportunist who shows you a picture of a polar bear ? You think he really cares ? Besides most of us will be dead anyway and there's no way of knowing off alternative fuels or engine system upgrades might improve things .

3_) Do you really think cars and trucks are the only source of pollution ? Can you imagine the pollution involved just to develop a proper EV infrastructure ?

4) As it is a hard cold snap wiped out the electrical grid in Texas a few years ago . A heat wave tapped on California's grid just last year . Do you really believe they can handle more crap ?

5) Imagine a house with 5 EV cars or a condominium with everyone EV . What a sight . What an ordeal just to install charging availability .

7) Look at a rural place like Montana.. Dont even think about that it might take to make it real there .

8) Have we not seen enough Tesla fires and sinking boats ? We might need a larger fire department .

9 ) EV;s are HEAVY !!!!! The new Macan weighs 1200 pounds more than its ICE predecessor . Imagine that !!!! Imagine how roads and bridges are going to face being torn apart by all that excess weight .

I never said once that I am opposed to clean air. In fact I would even understand a household buying an EV to compliment ICE cars . Unlike the EV zealots and opportunists I would have no issue with anyone who wants an EV .

BTW there are many forms of pollution even right down to the simplest thing , Take for example smoking , There is a strong argument that aside of the increased healthcare costs , resource destruction, and fires that smoking also leaves a carbon footprint . The irony is that many of those EU politicians sitting in those close door meetings do in fact smoke !! I can cite other examples of hypocrisy . I find it pathetic !!

elvisdoc

WHAT? No EV in the world sounds or drives anything like my 992.1 4 GTS with PDK wide open in Sport Plus with Sport Exhaust. No way, no how. Next argument pls.

jhenson29

Lol…I love this argument. Don’t pursue EV because they’re going to get better. And not slightly better. No. So much better that the current ones will be worthless.

If that’s true, that’s something to be excited about. How great are these future cars that make current cars (that are already great) worthless? I’m looking forward to it.

elvisdoc

A GT3 with a hybrid motor would make me very sad.

Tobeit

Did you even bother to read what I said or just wanted to get "it" out? You seem to respond to something else but not what I wrote or said. Point in case, I actually emphasized that the thrive to EV has little to do with polution after all - JMHO. Or did I say all or even most polution comes from cars - nope? Got to read before responding.

To give you a point of reference what my post was about - in case you did not get it. At the current consumption of oil it is estimated the world has about 50 years of reserves left. Different organization vary some with that estimate but the point is...knowing how long it takes to develop alternative means of generating power/heat/energy - thats not a lot of time left to come up with solutions and ...and my original point that hybrid technology is progressing very fast.... which in turn helps reducing consumption and with that helps stretching the timeline,

VarTheVar

I didn't read this entire thread but the Engineering explained video had 3 things that stood out to me as non truths.

1- I believe he compares weights of the old car to the new car with the standard rear seat delete which gives a false sense of how much weight the hybrid system adds. He says 103lbs i believe. The porsche official reveal said 50kilos, or 110lbs. I don't think we have official numbers on the hybrid system. But maybe he's right on this one..maybe
2- he claims that the weight doesn't affect handling because the car is faster on the nurburgring, which is absurd, because the weight does negatively affect handling and the car is faster on the ring because it has more power. That should be obvious to anyone with half a brain. He uses very tricky wording to lure you down that path of logic. Not cool. Dishonest.
3- The most disingenuous and enviro-apologist claim of all, he claims that Lamba 1 doesn't negatively affect horsepower. That's a preposterous and false claim. I can't even believe he made this point with a straight face. The engine has a 20% bump!!! in displacement and a giant turbo and only makes 5 extra horsepower. And he disguises it very cleverly for those who aren't paying attention by using the combined system's power (including the electric motor) to prove his point. Slimy. Apologist. Dishonest. Not cool. He knows better

CanAutM3

You lost me with that one. The energy available to be recuperated is proportional to the speed differential and is unrelated to how late the braking occurs.

A shorter braking time (later braking) implies the need for a more powerful regen system to harness all of the available energy. If anything, earlier braking could translate to more energy recuperation due to the power limitations of the regen system.

Fishah

Agreed. He's an engineer, not a car guy... Misses the nuance on some of this.

Tobeit

I probably did not describe that correct from the article I read about and what you say makes sense. They did say they had to greatly increase the efficiency of the energy recovery and also stated they can’t easily maintain peak power for long straights (braking later helps lap time here).
The late braking comment - will look for the article and correct if I find it.

PS: My error - the new draft regulation proposed an overall reduction in downforce to aid the limited battery energy they have to keep top speed on selected straights (less downforce, less energy to keep top speed)...which in turns makes braking distance longer and helps recovering more energy. All good, but that would mean overall slower lap time and that is unnacceptable for F1 as that would close the gap to other single seat racing classes, something they do not want to see happening. It then goes on that they need to fine tune their draft regulations on chassis (aero etc, too late to change engine regulations fpr 2026) to counter that, aka finding ways to shortening brake distances (more downforce would do it..but) w/o loosing the benefit why it was changed on the first place to reduce drag on straights. Yeah, its kind of convoluted to find the right balance but engine spec of max 475hp from emotor (same as Formula E) and 535hp from ICE is a done deal. I am sure they will figure it out and making lap times faster along the way.

yrralis1

You are misquoting me to my own face. If you didn’t get what I wrote or don’t understand the bigger picture . Porsche was heavily restricted with what they could do with ice. They were even encouraged to build faster EV.. They played you. I see won . Have fun watching your money evaporate with this car . Even worse could be driving a service loaner more than actual car..