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Agreed. Reading this epic thread alone would almost have you think that adding heavy options like 18-way, PDK, more leather, FAL, glass roof, and rear seats would have such a large impact on the weight that it dramatically changes the overall character and driving experience and basically makes it a different car. Having driven several Ts now from nearly zero-option lightweight builds to highly-optioned heavy builds, I say that's not really the case. To me, the added weight of the heavily optioned Ts makes no perceptible difference in the driving dynamics, sound, and feel of the car on the street, which makes me think this weight difference are likely only realized when driven near the limit at the track. The options that do make a more perceptible difference in the way the car drives are RAS (just feels different to me, not in any good or bad way) and of course PDK, because the gearing is different and you lose the engagement of a 3rd pedal.
What does make a T really unique in the lineup is the combination of these three: removal of sound insulation material, smaller turbos, and shorter shifter on the manual version. The lack of sound insulation truly changes the noise and makes the cabin noticeably louder from the driver's seat in a good way. The smaller turbos also change the character of the engine making it feel more naturally aspirated, which I know the base Carrera also has, but not in combination with manual gearbox and added noise from lack of sound-deadening on the T. Also compared to a base and S, I really like the feel and action of the shorter shifter height on the T, which I believe is identical to a GTS. In my experience, the shorter shifter, smaller turbos, and the extra cabin noise make a much more significant impact on what makes a T feel and drive different than the extra weight of the fluff options do (18-way, FAL, glass roof, etc). Hell, I even think getting lightweight forged wheels and carbon ceramic rotors to reduce unsprung weight and stickier Cup tires on this car would make a larger impact on driving character than some of the weight-adding factory options some here tell you not to get. So in my opinion, go nuts with the options and make the T your own. It's going to be a great car to drive no matter what. Only go with a super light-weight build if you what to eke out as much performance for frequent track use, or to save money. And at least try to get it in manual if possible just because the GTS-derived short shifter feels so sweet and I believe the manual version also has mechanical PTV (rear diff) which should further add to the playfulness and analog feel, though I'm not certain since I wasn't able to drive the snot out of the PDK T that I test drove.
There has been so much debate over the right build, etc. I think what most have settled on is - do whatever floats your boat. It will be a great car for you. I can't imagine someone not liking or appreciating a T after driving it...while still allowing the possibility you might like a GTS or GT3 more.
The T ethos build questions had me thinking about all the noise around the PSE button before the first cars started arriving. Do you have to order the chrome tips to get the button or not? Hah. Well we all know now. Funny though that I pretty much never use that button. My wife pointed to the PSE button the other day and asked what it was. Start the car, turn the steering wheel **** to sport (which opens up the exhaust valves, turns the PSE button red) and drive on. Now that I have the car, I kind of wish there was a way to option that button out and have it be another programmable diamond...
There has been so much debate over the right build, etc. I think what most have settled on is - do whatever floats your boat. It will be a great car for you. I can't imagine someone not liking or appreciating a T after driving it...while still allowing the possibility you might like a GTS or GT3 more.
Everyone is different. Some are buying their first 911. Others, their 20th. Some are older. Some younger. Some live in hot climates. Some in cold. Some daily drive theirs. Others drive it weekends only. Not everyone is going to agree on "the perfect spec" because the perfect spec is what satisfies YOUR particular needs and wants. Having said that, when the T's ethos is purism, some will cringe when people option them as luxo cruisers. I had a hell of a time finding a 991.2 T spec'd to my taste in the secondary market which is why I bought a new one.
Originally Posted by arrivederci
Start the car, turn the steering wheel **** to sport (which opens up the exhaust valves, turns the PSE button red) and drive on. Now that I have the car, I kind of wish there was a way to option that button out and have it be another programmable diamond...
What I see in the Carrera T, both 991.2 and 992 versions: The T is not a "poor-man's GT3". It is a reminder from Porsche that a 911 does not need to be at the high end of the model range to be a truly great car. Since the introduction of the GT3 in 1999, there has been a continuing focus in the media on that model. I feel it reached a peak with the 911R. Yes, the "GT" cars are spectacular cars. Their laser focus does have some drawbacks in useability and practicality that, to me at least, can actually make them less "911". 9000rpm redlines are great but how often do we really get to extend them to that level? The lack of rear seat availability (standard or optional) could be seen as a tick against practicality to some. In those years, the more "mainstream" 911s seemed to be forgotten and somehow thought of as inferior.
Porsche launching the Carrera T in the fall of 2017 attempted to shine a light on the 911's MANY virtues in it's most basic form. It was Porsche stating "A 911 doesn't have to be a racetrack refugee to be desirable". It was the most basic 911 with several sporty chassis options as standard and available with a few options to individualize the car to it's owners' specific wants and needs. Over 6 years later, I feel the T is a large part in reasserting the non-GT 911 range's depth of ability and desirability. A "REAL" 911 does not have to start with the letters "GT". The 911 range is very large, diverse, very competent, and gives a breadth of choice beyond any sports car available today.
Last edited by timothymoffat; 03-08-2024 at 03:15 PM.
Made a deal today with the Carrera T in Ice Grey Metallic with the aero package with high gloss elements. Totally fell in love with the car. Which was a bit strange since the car has a lot of elements I would not chose myself but I have started to like them. Mainly because all of you guys! The Aero package is not popular in Europe. Only few people order it. But looking at all your pictures for a year the aero really started to grow on me. So when this car came by I felt like hitting the jackpot.
I love the T ethos. But my current T has the glass sunroof and 18 way seats. Did not know the weight difference was that big. So my idea was to spec the next one without them. Also my wife is not driving the car as expected and the steering wheel adjustment (mainly reason for memory seats) was not electric. Since my legs are pretty short the 4 way seats were fine. This car is specced with the 4 way seats. And it also has the carbon roof! So finally some real T ethos! I do think the aero package adds weight? But also this car is specced with FAL. Which adds weight. So all in all probably not much difference.
The T ethos for me was also the agathe grey elements on the outside. It’s a mismatch with the black high gloss elements. And the black wheels. Which means I decided to not put the decals back and remove the badge on the back. So also against my own normal preference. Also the car has the tinted windows which I usually hate. So all in all it seems a bit strange. How can a car have so much elements I would usually dislike but still fall in love with it? Probably some things started to grow on me and the car is the sum of its own parts. It is a bit further away from the usual T elements I prefer but because of that the car has a different look that I like. And it remains a real manual T of course. No rear seats.
What I don’t understand: the owner went for the black elements but did not opt for the black LED matrix lights. So headlights remain an issue with me lol.
The interior is totally my style. With red elements I would chose myself and with the red deviated stitching. Also the fire extinguisher. Regarding safety issues it has the surround camera view and the lane departure warning. The car also has the keyless go. He also chose the aluminium pedals which strangely feel very good when using them. Not something I would pick but I like the feel. Burmester is a nice touch, although the sound (especially the bass!) is indeed not as good as my aftermarket sound package.
Main point is the car has only 6000km. After driving it I was very surprised how fresh it felt. With mine at 32.000km I did not notice it was not a new car anymore. When you step into a newer one you notice the pedals feel nicer, the clutch and the manual all feel tighter. The car is specced with the steering wheel plus. And has RAS. The combination works well. I noticed the RAS right out of the bat. But with the Michelins definitely a different drive. I can safely say though that no 911 needs it. But I can also easy live with it in combination with the power steering plus. It makes it a different car. Will elaborate on that more soon.
So all in all I have the same car but a totally different one as well. I am a very very happy man indeed and proud owner of my second 992 T. Even after selling my 991.2 GT3 after 9 months I wanted something else. But after driving the T for 1 year exactly I am just not ready to part from it and wanted another one. I also have never driven a 911 that long. What a compliment! Will take delivery in about 3 weeks because I have some planned trips to do with my red one. Cheers!
Made a deal today with the Carrera T in Ice Grey Metallic with the aero package with high gloss elements. Totally fell in love with the car. Which was a bit strange since the car has a lot of elements I would not chose myself but I have started to like them. Mainly because all of you guys! The Aero package is not popular in Europe. Only few people order it. But looking at all your pictures for a year the aero really started to grow on me. So when this car came by I felt like hitting the jackpot.
I love the T ethos. But my current T has the glass sunroof and 18 way seats. Did not know the weight difference was that big. So my idea was to spec the next one without them. Also my wife is not driving the car as expected and the steering wheel adjustment (mainly reason for memory seats) was not electric. Since my legs are pretty short the 4 way seats were fine. This car is specced with the 4 way seats. And it also has the carbon roof! So finally some real T ethos! I do think the aero package adds weight? But also this car is specced with FAL. Which adds weight. So all in all probably not much difference.
The T ethos for me was also the agathe grey elements on the outside. It’s a mismatch with the black high gloss elements. And the black wheels. Which means I decided to not put the decals back and remove the badge on the back. So also against my own normal preference. Also the car has the tinted windows which I usually hate. So all in all it seems a bit strange. How can a car have so much elements I would usually dislike but still fall in love with it? Probably some things started to grow on me and the car is the sum of its own parts. It is a bit further away from the usual T elements I prefer but because of that the car has a different look that I like. And it remains a real manual T of course. No rear seats.
What I don’t understand: the owner went for the black elements but did not opt for the black LED matrix lights. So headlights remain an issue with me lol.
The interior is totally my style. With red elements I would chose myself and with the red deviated stitching. Also the fire extinguisher. Regarding safety issues it has the surround camera view and the lane departure warning. The car also has the keyless go. He also chose the aluminium pedals which strangely feel very good when using them. Not something I would pick but I like the feel. Burmester is a nice touch, although the sound (especially the bass!) is indeed not as good as my aftermarket sound package.
Main point is the car has only 6000km. After driving it I was very surprised how fresh it felt. With mine at 32.000km I did not notice it was not a new car anymore. When you step into a newer one you notice the pedals feel nicer, the clutch and the manual all feel tighter. The car is specced with the steering wheel plus. And has RAS. The combination works well. I noticed the RAS right out of the bat. But with the Michelins definitely a different drive. I can safely say though that no 911 needs it. But I can also easy live with it in combination with the power steering plus. It makes it a different car. Will elaborate on that more soon.
So all in all I have the same car but a totally different one as well. I am a very very happy man indeed and proud owner of my second 992 T. Even after selling my 991.2 GT3 after 9 months I wanted something else. But after driving the T for 1 year exactly I am just not ready to part from it and wanted another one. I also have never driven a 911 that long. What a compliment! Will take delivery in about 3 weeks because I have some planned trips to do with my red one. Cheers!
CONGRATULATIONS!!! That spec is baller! I could not resist aerokit either - now just awaiting it's release from being stuck at port
When I was going through the configurator and thinking through the myriad of options for my 911T build, I referenced the conversations happening on this board often. Like so many others contemplating their decisions, I was intrigued (and sometimes baffled) by the debates that raged on. As conversations about the "ethos" of the T came up, I kept thinking to myself, "what am I optimizing for?"
I decided to take on a little side project to pull together the list of options for the T and show how it isn't just one car. It's really more of a platform that targets a segment of the market and different buying personas who are optimizing for different things. I never posted what I pulled together but now that I have my car I can see how it might be helpful for others who are new to the forum and working through the same decisions. For those of us new to the 911 world, it wasn't easy making those decisions and not being able to experience the options in person (given limited inventory).
Hopefully this helps some of you who are pre-lock date and still mulling over your build. Cheers!
When I was going through the configurator and thinking through the myriad of options for my 911T build, I referenced the conversations happening on this board often. Like so many others contemplating their decisions, I was intrigued (and sometimes baffled) by the debates that raged on. As conversations about the "ethos" of the T came up, I kept thinking to myself, "what am I optimizing for?"
I decided to take on a little side project to pull together the list of options for the T and show how it isn't just one car. It's really more of a platform that targets a segment of the market and different buying personas who are optimizing for different things. I never posted what I pulled together but now that I have my car I can see how it might be helpful for others who are new to the forum and working through the same decisions. For those of us new to the 911 world, it wasn't easy making those decisions and not being able to experience the options in person (given limited inventory).
Hopefully this helps some of you who are pre-lock date and still mulling over your build. Cheers!
Nice illustration and visuals... I guess I'm in a complete different league with my config and being 51.
The T is not a "poor-man's GT3". It is a reminder from Porsche that a 911 does not need to be at the high end of the model range to be a truly great car.
Nail on head. The poor man's GT3 narrative is just dumb. Many of us T owners also own or have owned GT cars, Turbo S's, etc. At least in our case, we don't buy the T because we can't purchase the other more expensive models, but because the T is a sublime sports car. Indeed, it is my favorite Porsche for the road.
Nail on head. The poor man's GT3 narrative is just dumb. Many of us T owners also own or have owned GT cars, Turbo S's, etc. At least in our case, we don't buy the T because we can't purchase the other more expensive models, but because the T is a sublime sports car. Indeed, it is my favorite Porsche for the road.
Exactly. Squeezing out those 385pk is just wonderful for normal road usage and having fun. I just drove a 992 Turbo S for the first time in my life and was blown away by the performance but the car is not near as much fun as the T because it’s nearly impossible to squeeze the car out. Just one example.
Originally Posted by SEA2ATX
I decided to take on a little side project to pull together the list of options for the T and show how it isn't just one car.
Love the idea and workout! Can we do now one with all the RL members? That would be real fun!
PPF, time to wrap? How much is enough? I’d like some members to let me know what they did and was their choice of coverage enough covered that they were satisfied? Or is just a ceramic coating what most do? Thx.
Picking up my T on Monday.. one year and one week from when I ordered.... very happy .... I am sure they will throw a bunch of stuff at me at the dealer... extended warranty, pre-paid service, etc. etc... already did PPF/Ceramic on it will most likely get none of the others... however, one that I was thinking about is tire and rim protection.... is it worth it? if anyone has gotten this, how much did you pay at the dealer? appreciate your feedback..
03-08-2024, 10:12 AM
.... I am sure they will throw a bunch of stuff at me at the dealer... extended warranty, pre-paid service, etc. etc... already did PPF/Ceramic on it will most likely get none of the others... however, one that I was thinking about is tire and rim protection.... is it worth it? if anyone has gotten this, how much did you pay at the dealer? appreciate your feedback..