stout

Not surprised that someone getting out of a GT3 and into a 991.2 or 992 Carrera of any stripe for a day would find the latter to be more than a bit vanilla.

My 991.2 felt like a sensory deprivation chamber after taking delivery and putting my GT4 into storage for a couple of weeks. I immediately missed the GT4's noise, the directness, etc. When I fired up the GT4 a few weeks later, it felt unnecessarily loud and a bit "much" while being no faster. More fun? On track, sure. On the road? Debatable. A better daily? Nope...not even close. I sold it not long after, as planned (I needed back seats). If I didn't need back seats, I might choose a GT3 Touring and live with the downsides in daily use—but, and this is a big but, the 991.2 Carrera/T/S/GTS are brilliant 911s full stop, with significant advantages of their own—breadth of ability and 7th gear for touring being among them. They're simply superb "all uses" cars, and plenty "focused" once you recalibrate your sensors. They don't beat you over the head with "experience," but they're fast and plenty sporting. A good driver in a GT3 will have a tough time getting away from a good driver in even a base Carrera—and it's my belief that there are a fair few GT3 owners who would get more use and more fun out of a Carrera. I can see the appeal of GT3 models and Carrera models. I also find my "mere" 991.2 Carrera to be more satisfying than my GT4, and that's saying something because I liked the GT4 a lot. YMMV.

992 has indeed gained weight, which starts with the eight-speed transmission, and that filters out due to the larger gearbox with an additional heavy mainshaft and the bigger hole in the unibody it requires. The way weight must now be stated, legally, only adds to the on-paper delta. The door handles, center console, and, so far, rear lights aren't for me. And I'd like to try one with a manual gearbox. But, having driven the 992 C2S on challenging roads for a day plus a bit of track time in a C4S, I can say this much: The engine, gearbox, and chassis are very well tuned. Is a 992 C4S slower than a 991.2 GT3? Not much (if at all). Is it a GT3 in terms of experience? No. Is it supposed to be? No...

groundhog

He's correct - I checked the german DIN and EU weights, the difference is at least 121lbs like for like

Fine words as always Stout

Have you looked at the pricing - check out what a 992 S costs with the performance fruit and thats the 450HP car that "Ringed" slower than the 450HP 991.2 GTS (albeit by a small amount). I do agree there are certain situations in which the 9A2 engined Carreras can match a II GT3 e.g. going up hills with twisties but it is a narrow window.

The wide track on the 992 will significantly improve front end grip relative to the 991 - a very worthy and important improvement. In terms of the engine, the 9A2 is excellent. However, having campaigned the GTS for two years, weight and lack of aero ultimately hurt it. Outside of that my only criticism was a mild tendency to understeer which could easily be rectified by a slightly different alignment and careful monitoring of tire pressure.

On another note buttons and toggle switches work - listen up Porsche - on or off - not dial a menu and guess! Don't believe me look in a **** pit

hacker-pschorr

Well, to be fair, Porsche could slap a Porsche badge and a slight makeover on a Volkswagen platform, triple the price and sell a ton of those too........oh wait.

Porsche911GTS'16

Groundhog - Thanks for making that point about the buttons. I routinely switch the modes that I use both in my GTS and GT3T. In the GTS, I go between normal mode and sport mode all the time. I do the same with the PSE, the chassis setting and auto start/stop. A quick glance and push of the button is all it takes. This simplicity has been lost, to some degree, with the touchscreen. Sport mode now has to be turned on with at least one touch (and perhaps multiple touches) of the touch screen. I can deploy the button without even looking at it. That is harder to do with a flat touchscreen. In medicine we call that "stereognosis" which is in layman's terms, the ability to identify something by touch. Like if you feel a paperclip, you know what you are touching. That sense is lost with a touchscreen which feels the same "across the board."

I am equally disappointed by the digital gauges. It is like going from an analogue watch to a digital one. Good analogue watches are timeless. Anyone seen the grey market mark-up on Patek Phillipe's Nautilus 5711 reference? It is over 100% at the moment. How many timeless digital watches are out there? There is always a newer and better one. Further, I can 100% see all five dials in my 991.1 GTS and 991.2 GT3T. Some aspects of the 991 interior are starting to look dated but the analogue dials, to me, will always look spot-on.

Psorcery

Escalade-esq. What am I looking at?


Economy car/Japanese like


Unique, and unmistakably Porsche. Classic. Follows tradition.

groundhog

^^^^ Yes well said Porsche911GTS16 - does a concert pianist look at his or her fingers? do they look at the pedals? do they yearn for a synthesiser display - the answer to all of these questions is no. Muscle memory and binary outcomes - job done

Porsche get a lot of this right normally e.g. launch control - non GT cars, hit sports plus, brake in, accelerator in, brake out - lift off. Now try a MB or BMW

Porsche911GTS'16

And while we are talking about the gauges, is it just me or does the center tach look super cheap compared to the 991? To me, the 991 tach looks masculine and the orange-black looks fantastic. The new analogue gauge reminds me of the Tin Man from The Wizard of Oz. Must be that silver color. Even the dial itself looks cheap. Actually, on second look, it looks like a vinyl record. I'm all about vinyl - on my record player.

mhs525

The 992 911 dashboard has been converted to screens so when existing 911/Porsche owners drive Porsche's new electric cars the dashboard will look /feel the same. Electric cars don't have any use for an oil pressure gauge for example. The 991.1 layout was a perfect combination of the latest tech and mechanical gauges. I also agree the center console buttons were great for specific features. Blank black glass or anything with a sub-menu is a step backwards in functionality.

moomin

To me the new dash looks incredible.

groundhog

^^^ In a nutshell what people are trying to say without saying it is something like this:-

"The Porsche 911 was a sports car that focussed on the driving experience and was designed on the basis of form following function........."

Psorcery

One wonders why the photo of the 991 gauges were left out of the quote.

Actions speak louder than words.

Chris3963

Great objective comments as usual. I suspect that some of the very strong criticisms made on this thread are from by people who have had very little experience with any of the cars under discussion. I don’t mind people expressing their dislike for the 992 on the basis of the new cosmetics because one mans beauty is another mans beast. But some are argued is such a way as to give the impression that theirs is the only view that counts and everyone else is a moron. one thing they can’t do is critics the dynamics. They remain fantastic.

And just supporting your comments on the competitiveness of the regular 911s vs the GT cars on regular roads, near my house there is a nice country road that is around 30kms long. It’s fullof blind corners, elevation changes and bumps. I have driven this road multiple time in my Touring, 991.2 RS and 991.2 4 GTS and I can definitely say that I am faster around this road in my GTS than the other two.

groundhog

And to give you a real perspective based on competitive driving in tarmac rallies and on track - the 991.2 GTS is competitive in short bursts as in a few laps or on short stages the same will apply to the 992 S and then and only if it is loaded with the performance options. No dog in this fight.

In fact the difference is around 2-3s a minute, my RS relative to the .2 GTS and around 1-2s a minute relative to a 991.2 GT3 - and thats when fresh, after around 4 laps the times start blowing out. Thats not to take away from the Carrera the 991.2 was one helluva a car with a very good engine and therein lies the problem.

The true strength of the Carrera is its dynamic range and not its track performance . However, there is a dilutive effect in increasing the dynamic range. This dilutive effect takes a car from a sports car to a grand tourer and the reality is grand tourers seem to depreciate as fast as brick dropping from a sky scraper.



See above engine power and torque curves - the 992 peak torque is 530Nm or 390 ftlbs thus the power curve will sit below that of the 550Nm 991.2 GTS but merge at peak HP of 450.

However there is another reality that needs to be considered and that is gearing, as a general rule the longest gears are in the base model and the shortest in the RS Base>S=GTS>GT3>GT3RS - the implication is there is greater torque multiplication as one moves along the spectrum, the impact being the torque delivered to the rear wheels and thus the force at the contact patch increases progressively from base through to RS.

Basically the use of torque multiplication through shorter gearing increases acclerative force at the contact patch for the lower torque cars and then the extended torque range with revs delivers higher top end HP thus keeping the process going.

This is why diesel engined vehicles blast off the line for 50m and why high revving torque engines with no gears (e.g. EVs) give up at high speed.

destaccado

Ironically it appears that's precisely where most (not all) of the strong praise appears to be coming from.

Regardless, I don't have a dog or an investment in this fight. If someone wants a 992, buys a 992, and loves their 992 I wish them as little depreciation and as much enjoyment as possible.

LexVan

Well, to be fair, you're not in Porsche's target market for a new 911. Doesn't negate your opinion, but you're not a potential customer either.