992 - another overpriced, unsatisfying non-GT 911
07-28-2019, 02:26 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
992 - another overpriced, unsatisfying non-GT 911
Got a chance to drive a 992 C4S for an entire day around Germany. My dealer gave me one for free while my GT3 was in for an oil change.
Wow. Yuck.
The engine sounds like a turd. Granted that's coming out of a 991.2 GT3 but I digress...it sounded really horrible compared to my old 991.1 as well. Common-sense to most of us but still worth pointing out because the difference is that vast.
The interior is definitely not going to age well at all and isn't even impressive today. Everything from the silly Braun razor stub to the miles and miles of screens that are going to look like 1960's television technology before the "?994?" is even released. Due to the positioning of the steering wheel, you can't even see all of the gauges at the same time because the steering wheel blocks the view of the far left and far right one. Clearly, whoever designed the interior is an idiot. The only thing I can speak positively on is that the toggle switches are a bit nicer than some of the buttons on the center tunnel of the 991....but don't get too excited because the 992 has plenty of cheap buttons as well. The door handles felt much more "GT" than sports car as well.
The price was mind-boggling. This one was 164,000 euros or only about 15,000 less than my GT3 that has 10,000 in CXX options alone. Granted it had a bunch of needless stuff I wouldn't have optioned but it didn't have lightweight buckets or Burmeister either.
Suspension and brakes were great. Without taking it on a track I didn't notice it feeling that much different in those areas from my GT3.
Honestly, spending a lot of time in Germany and understanding a bit of the leftist European politics I feel this is car is the poor effort resultant of two major factors;
- China becoming a more dominant market
- European emission regulations
I have trouble believing that this is the car Porsche would have built if they had another option.
I'm only coming out with this review now so that the true enthusiasts out there take a step back and give the C8 a chance. America hasn't gone full retard yet and though I've never considered a Chevy, were I to look at a new car in the US market I definitely would be.
Prediction: The guys buying this car new are going to lose their shirts.
Wow. Yuck.
The engine sounds like a turd. Granted that's coming out of a 991.2 GT3 but I digress...it sounded really horrible compared to my old 991.1 as well. Common-sense to most of us but still worth pointing out because the difference is that vast.
The interior is definitely not going to age well at all and isn't even impressive today. Everything from the silly Braun razor stub to the miles and miles of screens that are going to look like 1960's television technology before the "?994?" is even released. Due to the positioning of the steering wheel, you can't even see all of the gauges at the same time because the steering wheel blocks the view of the far left and far right one. Clearly, whoever designed the interior is an idiot. The only thing I can speak positively on is that the toggle switches are a bit nicer than some of the buttons on the center tunnel of the 991....but don't get too excited because the 992 has plenty of cheap buttons as well. The door handles felt much more "GT" than sports car as well.
The price was mind-boggling. This one was 164,000 euros or only about 15,000 less than my GT3 that has 10,000 in CXX options alone. Granted it had a bunch of needless stuff I wouldn't have optioned but it didn't have lightweight buckets or Burmeister either.
Suspension and brakes were great. Without taking it on a track I didn't notice it feeling that much different in those areas from my GT3.
Honestly, spending a lot of time in Germany and understanding a bit of the leftist European politics I feel this is car is the poor effort resultant of two major factors;
- China becoming a more dominant market
- European emission regulations
I have trouble believing that this is the car Porsche would have built if they had another option.
I'm only coming out with this review now so that the true enthusiasts out there take a step back and give the C8 a chance. America hasn't gone full retard yet and though I've never considered a Chevy, were I to look at a new car in the US market I definitely would be.
Prediction: The guys buying this car new are going to lose their shirts.
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07-30-2019, 03:02 PM
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So many emotionally charged opinions and overly dramatic statements about about the demise of the 911…. pure lunacy. When people are left to complain about door handles and shifters you know it’s a home run.
The 992 is slightly bigger, but not by anything meaningful. It actually has the identical wheelbase as the 991, and the overall length is only greater by 20 mm which is due mostly to a more aggressive front end. The overall height is only taller by 4 mm. While 4 mm is nothing to begin with, the driver actually sits lower in the car. These are totally insignificant numbers. If you don’t like the width, you’d be in the vast minority and I’d advise you to turn your head when the turbos are announced. When was the last time you heard anyone say, “I don’t like the wide body.”
Regarding weight, the body structure is now 70% aluminum (compared to 30% before) which actually makes the structure 121 lbs lighter than the 991. The overall curb weight is up 163 lbs, due to numerous advances/additions in performance, electronics, comfort and technology. While weight is important in any sports car, it’s not nearly as crucial in these every-day 911’s which are never tracked. There’s not a single buyer of this car who will notice 160 lbs. 0-60 is quicker. Handling and braking is better. Weight to hp power ratio is slightly better. Driving it feels lighter, more nimble and agile — and the performance stats prove it.
Better performance: 0-60 quicker (.4 sec better than 991), quicker around the Nurburgring (5 seconds better), larger turbochargers, new injection technologies, electrical control over the waste-gate flaps, more torque (+22), more horsepower (+23), air flow to the turbochargers improved, better design and positioning of the air coolers creating better air flow, infinitely adjustable exhaust flaps, better engine mounts which are positioned differently.
Better PDK: additional gear, flash-shifting from the 991 GT models with better shift times and shift quality
Better aerodynamics: variable cooling flaps, reduced lift, 25% larger rear spoiler
More direct steering (10% better) with better feedback; stiffer torsion bar
Better braking feel with an electric brake booster and shorter pedal travel. Braking from 62 mph (100 k/h) is 3 feet shorter. From 186 mph is 39 feet shorter.
Better suspension with 4D chassis control, new PASM with adjustable dampers and better software, redesigned Porsche Traction Management
Better grip with completely new tire compound developed specifically for the 992 which contributes to better handling.
It’s strange to see Porsche "enthusiasts" on a Porsche forum slam so much of what Porsche engineers are creating these days. Calling them idiots, suggesting the success of the 911 is over, etc. Conversations about the 911R, the Speedster, the Taycan, the new 992 — there seems to be a group on Rennlist readily available all day to hate anything Porsche creates.
For everyone else, you'll love the 992.
The 992 is slightly bigger, but not by anything meaningful. It actually has the identical wheelbase as the 991, and the overall length is only greater by 20 mm which is due mostly to a more aggressive front end. The overall height is only taller by 4 mm. While 4 mm is nothing to begin with, the driver actually sits lower in the car. These are totally insignificant numbers. If you don’t like the width, you’d be in the vast minority and I’d advise you to turn your head when the turbos are announced. When was the last time you heard anyone say, “I don’t like the wide body.”
Regarding weight, the body structure is now 70% aluminum (compared to 30% before) which actually makes the structure 121 lbs lighter than the 991. The overall curb weight is up 163 lbs, due to numerous advances/additions in performance, electronics, comfort and technology. While weight is important in any sports car, it’s not nearly as crucial in these every-day 911’s which are never tracked. There’s not a single buyer of this car who will notice 160 lbs. 0-60 is quicker. Handling and braking is better. Weight to hp power ratio is slightly better. Driving it feels lighter, more nimble and agile — and the performance stats prove it.
Better performance: 0-60 quicker (.4 sec better than 991), quicker around the Nurburgring (5 seconds better), larger turbochargers, new injection technologies, electrical control over the waste-gate flaps, more torque (+22), more horsepower (+23), air flow to the turbochargers improved, better design and positioning of the air coolers creating better air flow, infinitely adjustable exhaust flaps, better engine mounts which are positioned differently.
Better PDK: additional gear, flash-shifting from the 991 GT models with better shift times and shift quality
Better aerodynamics: variable cooling flaps, reduced lift, 25% larger rear spoiler
More direct steering (10% better) with better feedback; stiffer torsion bar
Better braking feel with an electric brake booster and shorter pedal travel. Braking from 62 mph (100 k/h) is 3 feet shorter. From 186 mph is 39 feet shorter.
Better suspension with 4D chassis control, new PASM with adjustable dampers and better software, redesigned Porsche Traction Management
Better grip with completely new tire compound developed specifically for the 992 which contributes to better handling.
It’s strange to see Porsche "enthusiasts" on a Porsche forum slam so much of what Porsche engineers are creating these days. Calling them idiots, suggesting the success of the 911 is over, etc. Conversations about the 911R, the Speedster, the Taycan, the new 992 — there seems to be a group on Rennlist readily available all day to hate anything Porsche creates.
For everyone else, you'll love the 992.
07-28-2019, 03:09 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
Could be a generation to skip.
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07-28-2019, 03:15 PM
#4
I'm only coming out with this review now so that the true enthusiasts out there take a step back and give the C8 a chance. America hasn't gone full retard yet and though I've never considered a Chevy, were I to look at a new car in the US market I definitely would be.
Surely, you are not advocating for breaking one of the oldest car purchasing axioms about never buying the first year of a new model. Especially one so radically different than the prior Vettes . . .
Surely, you are not advocating for breaking one of the oldest car purchasing axioms about never buying the first year of a new model. Especially one so radically different than the prior Vettes . . .
07-28-2019, 03:17 PM
#5
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Thread Starter
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07-28-2019, 03:19 PM
#6
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Thread Starter
I'm only coming out with this review now so that the true enthusiasts out there take a step back and give the C8 a chance. America hasn't gone full retard yet and though I've never considered a Chevy, were I to look at a new car in the US market I definitely would be.
Surely, you are not advocating for breaking one of the oldest car purchasing axioms about never buying the first year of a new model. Especially one so radically different than the prior Vettes . . .
Surely, you are not advocating for breaking one of the oldest car purchasing axioms about never buying the first year of a new model. Especially one so radically different than the prior Vettes . . .
07-28-2019, 03:24 PM
#7
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Thread Starter
Destaccado,
Corvette or Porsche? Corvette would be good for you....you'll love the AC Delco interior.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYGzhCtFt9E
Corvette or Porsche? Corvette would be good for you....you'll love the AC Delco interior.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYGzhCtFt9E
To make it very clear - I'm not advocating anyone go out and buy a C8. I'm simply advocating that you don't go buy a 992.
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07-28-2019, 04:51 PM
#8
Pro
Got a chance to drive a 992 C4S for an entire day around Germany. My dealer gave me one for free while my GT3 was in for an oil change.
Wow. Yuck.
The engine sounds like a turd. Granted that's coming out of a 991.2 GT3 but I digress...it sounded really horrible compared to my old 991.1 as well. Common-sense to most of us but still worth pointing out because the difference is that vast.
The interior is definitely not going to age well at all and isn't even impressive today. Everything from the silly Braun razor stub to the miles and miles of screens that are going to look like 1960's television technology before the "?994?" is even released. Due to the positioning of the steering wheel, you can't even see all of the gauges at the same time because the steering wheel blocks the view of the far left and far right one. Clearly, whoever designed the interior is an idiot. The only thing I can speak positively on is that the toggle switches are a bit nicer than some of the buttons on the center tunnel of the 991....but don't get too excited because the 992 has plenty of cheap buttons as well. The door handles felt much more "GT" than sports car as well.
The price was mind-boggling. This one was 164,000 euros or only about 15,000 less than my GT3 that has 10,000 in CXX options alone. Granted it had a bunch of needless stuff I wouldn't have optioned but it didn't have lightweight buckets or Burmeister either.
Suspension and brakes were great. Without taking it on a track I didn't notice it feeling that much different in those areas from my GT3.
Honestly, spending a lot of time in Germany and understanding a bit of the leftist European politics I feel this is car is the poor effort resultant of two major factors;
- China becoming a more dominant market
- European emission regulations
I have trouble believing that this is the car Porsche would have built if they had another option.
I'm only coming out with this review now so that the true enthusiasts out there take a step back and give the C8 a chance. America hasn't gone full retard yet and though I've never considered a Chevy, were I to look at a new car in the US market I definitely would be.
Prediction: The guys buying this car new are going to lose their shirts.
Wow. Yuck.
The engine sounds like a turd. Granted that's coming out of a 991.2 GT3 but I digress...it sounded really horrible compared to my old 991.1 as well. Common-sense to most of us but still worth pointing out because the difference is that vast.
The interior is definitely not going to age well at all and isn't even impressive today. Everything from the silly Braun razor stub to the miles and miles of screens that are going to look like 1960's television technology before the "?994?" is even released. Due to the positioning of the steering wheel, you can't even see all of the gauges at the same time because the steering wheel blocks the view of the far left and far right one. Clearly, whoever designed the interior is an idiot. The only thing I can speak positively on is that the toggle switches are a bit nicer than some of the buttons on the center tunnel of the 991....but don't get too excited because the 992 has plenty of cheap buttons as well. The door handles felt much more "GT" than sports car as well.
The price was mind-boggling. This one was 164,000 euros or only about 15,000 less than my GT3 that has 10,000 in CXX options alone. Granted it had a bunch of needless stuff I wouldn't have optioned but it didn't have lightweight buckets or Burmeister either.
Suspension and brakes were great. Without taking it on a track I didn't notice it feeling that much different in those areas from my GT3.
Honestly, spending a lot of time in Germany and understanding a bit of the leftist European politics I feel this is car is the poor effort resultant of two major factors;
- China becoming a more dominant market
- European emission regulations
I have trouble believing that this is the car Porsche would have built if they had another option.
I'm only coming out with this review now so that the true enthusiasts out there take a step back and give the C8 a chance. America hasn't gone full retard yet and though I've never considered a Chevy, were I to look at a new car in the US market I definitely would be.
Prediction: The guys buying this car new are going to lose their shirts.
To me this car is modern era 996. Infact, the 996 looks way more cooler now.
Just waiting for 992 Turbo and Gt3 Touring; just hoping to see some changes. If none exist, I am adding few more 991.2/.1 & 997.1/.2 to my garage. Though I am planning to get a new Macan later this year (that is a different story).
07-28-2019, 06:44 PM
#9
That AC Delco interior looks about as nice in photos as the 992 I sat in. Does the Chevy cost you an extra 3k for the leather dash? The 992 doesn't even have the Alcantara headliner anymore unless you pay for it. That being said, even if the C8 photos are misleading, for under half the price I'd be willing to sacrifice a touch of interior quality.
To make it very clear - I'm not advocating anyone go out and buy a C8. I'm simply advocating that you don't go buy a 992.
To make it very clear - I'm not advocating anyone go out and buy a C8. I'm simply advocating that you don't go buy a 992.
07-28-2019, 06:48 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
Honestly - it is a good wifes car now. What I mean is that I will buy some version of it in PDK, maybe a cab, and let her drive it around. It will be good on longer trips because of its lower NVH and more comfort. The tech should be fine to hook up her and the kids latest gadgets. I will stay with my 991.2 and earlier manual trans 911's thank you very much. The GT3 versions should be much better but how are we going to get around those screens?
07-28-2019, 07:18 PM
#11
Race Car
Hard pass on the C8. I don't care if it's 1/2 the price of a 992. I wouldn't enjoy it after a year of ownership...it would get old real fast.
That said, I'm passing on any 992 S/4S...too many concerns about the fonts used, the mode switch dial looks terrible, the NUBBIN, etc. Performance it's decent...BUT...I might actually go 718 Spyder if I had to make a call here. Or 991.2 TTS.
That said, I'm passing on any 992 S/4S...too many concerns about the fonts used, the mode switch dial looks terrible, the NUBBIN, etc. Performance it's decent...BUT...I might actually go 718 Spyder if I had to make a call here. Or 991.2 TTS.
07-28-2019, 07:46 PM
#12
Wholeheartedly agreed with OP. I'd hate to sound like a broken record but the tech and screens in this car is far too much. Very messy/sloppy, and more importantly IT'S DISTRACTING! This car is trying to be a BMW/Mercedes now. Something previous 911's are not. You get all this added useless tech, more weight and it's numbed out by added sound symposers + turned up boost. The car reviews are bogus. Some of the reviewers who bashed the 991.2 and 991.2 GTS for certain reason are actually praising the 992 for them now.. Hypocrite much? Money talks, Porsche knows this.
The 992 Turbo will be great, I'm sure.
The 992 Turbo will be great, I'm sure.
07-28-2019, 09:38 PM
#13
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I don't think the people who designed the 992 are idiots at all. They are producing a product based on many factors and competing desires/demands from their bosses, country specific market places, regulators etc. The 992 will be awesome in almost every respect.
However, the 911 has really turned into a 2 door Panamera. They are both awesome cars but the 992 is far far closer to a Panamera than a 997. I was driven around the Leipzig track by a pro driver in a Panamera Turbo S. I wan't sure what I was more shocked by - the driver or the car. Both were just awesome. I think what some of us are irritated by with the 992 is that it is posing as a 911. If you think of it as a 2-door Panamera and manage your personal expectations to this mind set, you will not be dissappointed.
Honestly, after spending 125k on my 991.2, it just doesn't do it for me. It's not the experience I was expecting when I bought it. It is highly reliable, fast as heck, luxurious and has a lot of tech. It is the Porsche icon. Not much to complain about but it just doesn't make me "feel" like I do when I drive my Boxster. I am done with Turbos. I am on a list for the 992 GT3 (unless it goes hybrid or turbo - unlikely) and working a deal for a Spyder too. If we are going to spend this much on a car, we ought to get what we want.
However, the 911 has really turned into a 2 door Panamera. They are both awesome cars but the 992 is far far closer to a Panamera than a 997. I was driven around the Leipzig track by a pro driver in a Panamera Turbo S. I wan't sure what I was more shocked by - the driver or the car. Both were just awesome. I think what some of us are irritated by with the 992 is that it is posing as a 911. If you think of it as a 2-door Panamera and manage your personal expectations to this mind set, you will not be dissappointed.
Honestly, after spending 125k on my 991.2, it just doesn't do it for me. It's not the experience I was expecting when I bought it. It is highly reliable, fast as heck, luxurious and has a lot of tech. It is the Porsche icon. Not much to complain about but it just doesn't make me "feel" like I do when I drive my Boxster. I am done with Turbos. I am on a list for the 992 GT3 (unless it goes hybrid or turbo - unlikely) and working a deal for a Spyder too. If we are going to spend this much on a car, we ought to get what we want.
07-28-2019, 10:37 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
07-28-2019, 10:57 PM
#15
Funny how contrary your evaluation is to all the motoring journalists out there. I've barely seen anything negative that's actually a deal breaker (gear shifter, door handles 
) I'll take Chris Harris's opinion over yours OP. I don't care for the nubbin either, but that's why I'll get a MT, with maybe an aftermarket exhaust.
It's like complaing over electric vs hydraulic steering, it's done, time to move on. Unless of course you can somehow convince the EU to relax emissions. Since as politicians are falling over themselves to ban gas cars, good luck to you.
The 992 is beautiful and I can't wait to own one.
) I'll take Chris Harris's opinion over yours OP. I don't care for the nubbin either, but that's why I'll get a MT, with maybe an aftermarket exhaust.It's like complaing over electric vs hydraulic steering, it's done, time to move on. Unless of course you can somehow convince the EU to relax emissions. Since as politicians are falling over themselves to ban gas cars, good luck to you.
The 992 is beautiful and I can't wait to own one.
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