A place to discuss all things ADM
12-21-2023 | 12:36 PM
#7861
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From: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
The article I linked, albeit from 4 years ago, contradicts your revised statement. What data do you have?
In the 911 range, a lot of the ones produced are GT cars, and hard for me to imagine that the profit margin on a GT3 is not significantly higher than a base Carrera. Yes, there are R&D costs, but I really doubt those cost are more than a small percentage of the revenue on the cars. Keep in mind that there are multiple years of production of something like a 992.1 GT3, and they're not investing in R&D each year.
Last edited by Manifold; 12-21-2023 at 12:38 PM.
12-21-2023 | 12:37 PM
#7862
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From: West Los Angeles & Truckee, CA
I take pride in my reading skills. You said GT cars are not profit makers for PAG. Maybe you meant something different.
12-21-2023 | 12:47 PM
#7863
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2020
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From: Naples, FL
Every single one of the 911 trim variants are money makers.
12-21-2023 | 12:55 PM
#7864
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From: West Los Angeles & Truckee, CA
I would agree that the margin % on a GT3 is lower than a TTS or maybe even a Carrera GTS.
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12-21-2023 | 01:37 PM
#7865
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2019
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From: SCal
As much as we don't like to admit it, valuation of brands is based on popularity and desirability. While awesome driving cars is one of the factors that weigh into that equation - it's certainly not the only one. Ferrari's brand is super popular and desirable. When you want to buy a sweet driving Ferrari you're competing against the true enthusiasts (which is a smaller number) and the people who just want to own a Ferrari and, for the hard-to-get cars, the Ferrari that someone told them is hard to get and may increase in value. Porsche certainly has some of that. But I know for a fact that people didn't look twice at my 991.2 Touring but every time they see my bright blue LT, they take pics and ooh and aah. In part, that's why I love 911s. There's a deep appreciation for the engineering.
I think while we argue and troll, most of us on rennlist deeply like the cars for their mechanical worth, not for the looks they get or how popular the brand is. I experience this to the extreme with my real NSX-R - only the real enthusiasts (and even then, the real JDM enthusiasts) understand that they are looking at only 1 of 10 or so NSX-Rs in the country when they see my car in person.
I think while we argue and troll, most of us on rennlist deeply like the cars for their mechanical worth, not for the looks they get or how popular the brand is. I experience this to the extreme with my real NSX-R - only the real enthusiasts (and even then, the real JDM enthusiasts) understand that they are looking at only 1 of 10 or so NSX-Rs in the country when they see my car in person.
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12-21-2023 | 01:53 PM
#7866
RL Community Team
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To clarify. GT cars do make profit for PAG. But the margins on a GT car the lowest of any model in the 911 range, and perhaps the entire Porsche model lineup (the last part I am not sure of, but the former, I am).
There, um, happy?
12-21-2023 | 04:22 PM
#7867
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12-21-2023 | 05:32 PM
#7868
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From: West Los Angeles & Truckee, CA
Do you think the article Manifold posted about the base Carrera being the lowest margin 911 is incorrect? I am just curious more than anything if that's a higher margin (percentage wise) than a PDK GT3 that is produced in the thousands too. I don't have access to their detailed financials - so have no idea..
12-21-2023 | 05:56 PM
#7869
Race Car
Joined: Jun 2018
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From: Ohio
There's no way. GT3 owners almost all go PTS and go ham on Exclusive and CXX options. If PTS and CXX weren't options, I bet demand would drop by 30% for GT cars. a 911GT car is probably the cheapest car that you can go full custom as if it's a RR or something.
12-21-2023 | 06:27 PM
#7870
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Last edited by av12345; 12-21-2023 at 06:28 PM.
12-21-2023 | 06:46 PM
#7871
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As said above there is a much smaller % of PTS and CXX cars than you think there are...especially cars with both. Someone here has the data but I would bet less than 30% of GT3s are PTS and less than 2% have CXX options.
12-21-2023 | 08:25 PM
#7872
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From: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
A friend of mine is high up in a consulting firm and has a lot of experience in the auto industry.
He said that, as a percentage of the sale price, the profit margin is highest for the Cayenne and Macan (around 35% net profit after expenses), and somewhat lower for the sports cars (around 25% net profit after expenses).
In the 911 range, he said the profit margin (again, as a percentage) would be a little lower for a stripper GT car as compared to an average non-GT 911, but when the GT cars are well optioned the profit margin is about the same or slightly higher. He thinks the profit margin for the ST and SC is probably about the same as the GT cars, so they aren't really 'money grabs'.
In absolute dollars per vehicle, the profit will generally be higher for the more expensive cars, though Cayennes will overlap with non-GT 911s.
He said that, as a percentage of the sale price, the profit margin is highest for the Cayenne and Macan (around 35% net profit after expenses), and somewhat lower for the sports cars (around 25% net profit after expenses).
In the 911 range, he said the profit margin (again, as a percentage) would be a little lower for a stripper GT car as compared to an average non-GT 911, but when the GT cars are well optioned the profit margin is about the same or slightly higher. He thinks the profit margin for the ST and SC is probably about the same as the GT cars, so they aren't really 'money grabs'.
In absolute dollars per vehicle, the profit will generally be higher for the more expensive cars, though Cayennes will overlap with non-GT 911s.
Last edited by Manifold; 12-21-2023 at 08:27 PM.
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12-21-2023 | 08:55 PM
#7873
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There is no way on the planet that GT cars are not profit makers. If they make 15,000 992's in various forms (GT3's, GT3RS, S/T and so forth), that's a $4B revenue business. I'd be willing to bet they make some profit on that . Yes, they are "halo" cars and add to the brand and they make more absoulute profi on higher volume SUVs and Taycans etc., but they still make a lot of money here. I would hazard a guess that Turbo's are some of their highest margin vehicles at close to the $275K a pop.
. Yes, they are "halo" cars and add to the brand and they make more absoulute profi on higher volume SUVs and Taycans etc., but they still make a lot of money here. I would hazard a guess that Turbo's are some of their highest margin vehicles at close to the $275K a pop.
12-21-2023 | 08:58 PM
#7874
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