Diablo Dude

I think you and JAB12 are spot on.
And that's why that Poll is virtually worthless.
And as PTS mentioned above, the people "asking" are the one's that dont have a relationship with a dealer.

Here in the Bay Area, I havent run across a single Pcar owner that's been able to get an allocation of a GT car at MSRP, unless they were VIP./Halo status.

And given the surge in the stock market year to date, all of those tech employees in Silicon Valley have watched their stock-option grants go way in the "money".
Not that they all can be exercised immediately or have vested, but many are "vested" and it does put them in a situation where they dont need to care about paying an ADM.
This puts even more of a "floor" under the ADM game here in the Bay Area.

Not sure why the "Look at Me!" msrp crowd continues to CONFLATE and compare "apples" with "oranges".
It must be pure ego . . . and it certainly doesnt help those "asking" about ADM's who dont have a robust transaction history with a dealer.

usctrojanGT3

That is the part that I don't agree with. Trading under market (dealer wholesale vs private party resale) is about a 5-7% difference on average because what the dealer can sell the car for more than what you can sell it for via a private party transaction. Then there's the sales tax trade-in credit for many folks and that basically puts you at the same place as selling the car private party. You make it seem like these MSRP dealers are asking someone to take a 20% haircut to private party prices which for my case is not true. My dealer has made a 8-12% profit from what they sold the car for versus what they provided me. Are there dealers that ask for 20-30% haircuts to get a GT allocation for MSRP? Of course, but those are the ones that want to look like an MSRP dealer but take a market ADM on the trade in.

DodoBrd

I’d venture to say that this poll (of 150 RLers) is not about indicative of what percentage of ppl paid ADM or not. Many RLers are long time Porsche / GT owners that have relationships and able to get MSRP allocations. The crowd of moneyed up younger tech and BTC bros (or dudes that just haven’t been in the ‘game’ very long) are probably forced to pay ADM. So I suspect the MSRP crowd is much less.

DodoBrd

not to mention, selling private is a total PITA unless you price your car too low.

I remember I sold my Spyder privately in 2021, I stupidly held the car for a guy who put a $1k deposit for 2 weeks, he flew down, drove it and didn’t want it afterwards. Had to spend half a day dealing with this guy because I really liked his offer, but such a waste of time.

DodoBrd

you know you can just pay it off when you get home right?

DodoBrd

I think many MSRP guys here have been upfront with how they were able to obtain GT cars at sticker, and their experiences are helpful to those that want to follow their path.

If you always want the hot new GT cars at sticker, you either need a relationship (ie buy a lot of other cars from dealer), wait in line after casually buying A normal car every 2-3 years, or have a PI plant damning evidence against the GM

If you casually want a new GT car every 5-7 years, and no other Porsches, just go find a ‘reasonable’ ADM

Manifold

… and the delta between what the dealer pays for trade-in and what they sell it for isn’t all ‘profit’. They have substantial overhead expense and the profit for the owner is only a fraction of that delta.

Diablo Dude

Not my experience at all.
I put my 981 GT4 up on Facebook for sale last November.

Had 3 serious buyers within 3 days and with people tripping over themselves to put a deposit down to hold it at my $108,000 offer.
A young gentleman from a Pcar dealership was third in the que, but offered me materially more. I sold it to him and the transaction took 5 days from start to finish.
MSRP on my GT4 was $112,900 and I paid $112,000 for it with 1200 miles and CPO from a Pcar dealer. Original owner was a "Cars and Coffee" guy who was running out of garage space in Los Altos. Car came with $5,000 of PPF from Premier.

I would have never gotten the price that I got by trading my GT4 back to my dealer with 15,000 miles on it.
Moreover, I would not have been able to "lock-in" an agreed upon price on my trade-in until my '23 GT3 arrived.

Between the recent price increases and the price of my GT4 sale, the ADM on my 2023 Touring has essentially been a wash.

DodoBrd

yes, that 1 anecdote. I’m talking about ‘in general’

i got my 2023 GT3 at MSRP. No trade, no finance, no buying history at all, no sell back requirements… that’s also an anecdote not indicative of what actually happens 98% of the time

Randy M

Prior to receiving an allocation for my 992 GT3 I was looking at new Audi R8's, specifically a fully optioned Kemora Grey V10 Performance. Audi of Wilsonville gave me a lowball offer of $180K for my $204+K msrp 2018 991,2 GT3 w/ 3500 miles on it; and marked up the R8 they had by $50K. The clown's name was Moe and would not negotiate at all.

Sold my 991.2 GT3 on Autotrader for $225K and got into my 992 GT3 at sticker for $223K + PPF and sales tax.

Diablo Dude

I had no previous buying history with the dealer that gave me my 2023 GT3 allocation.

Paid cash. No PCF financing requirement. No watches. No PPF. No add ons. No sell back requirements. No left-over BBQ from Outback. No nothing.
Paid (for me) what was a reasonable ADM. One that wasnt even 25% of the average daily equity swing in my brokerage account.

I felt very comfortable with my transaction and the car is as good as advertised.

Have a nice weekend everybody. And Happy Father's Day to all the Dad's out there.

DodoBrd

yes, we know. You paid $40k ADM and have $5m in your equity account (you’ve said this stuff many times)… and I’m sorry you choose Outback for your BBQ… you really need to try Texas bbq

Diablo Dude

Cool story.

Manifold

It's a bit funny seeing people worth millions of dollars debating what the right price for a ~$200k car is. I hope we're here mostly just to shoot the breeze, not because we think this is actually an important issue?

We know the market isn't 'efficient', so some people will get a better deal than others. But it takes time to hunt for the 'best' deal, and time is money, so sometimes it makes sense to just buy a car if you run across one you like at a fair price.

Whether a car is worth $X in terms of value for the dollar is also pretty subjective. I think Porsche sports cars are generally overpriced, but since Porsche lacks competition in the $100-250k range, they price the cars where the market will bear, and apparently we're willing to bear a lot.

I myself have never been willing to pay an ADM because my dealer has always been an MSRP dealer and I developed a relationship with the dealer on the ground floor. I've never set foot in, or even called, any other dealer. I'm used to paying MSRP or less, so unwilling to pay ADM on any new car, Porsche or otherwise.

If I've learned anything from this discussion, it's that if you can readily afford nice cars, enjoy nice cars, and are getting old, just buy what you like at a fair price, and don't torture yourself trying to justify buying the cars. I splurged on cars in the past year, and I don't regret it.

Manifold

A friend of mine owns a car dealership. If a car is sold for $15k more than the trade in price, I asked him how much of that $15k winds up being profit for the dealership owner, after all expenses. He said it's roughly $4,500.