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For the road, cars that compete with the current GT3 are all of the other current Porsche sports, as well as the Porsche sports cars from prior generations. And there are plenty of cars from other brands that compete also. You can only go so fast on public roads, and the GT3 is not the fastest, smoothest, most planted, wildest, most confidence inspiring, loudest, quietest, most practical, least practical, attractive, exotic, etc. It's just a car among many cars, not a holy grail.
… sure… keep telling yourself that and enjoy your 10 yo turbo
According to Mannheim, used car prices at the wholesale level jumped a surprising 4% over the last 2 weeks. But Im sure one of the usual "suspects" will dismiss this data point.
Sure, but did you look at the reason why? Dealers are loading up on stock for peak spring selling season. Just because whole prices are up it doesn't mean retail prices will match the increase. Demand will determine retail prices.
I signed up for price alerts for 992 GT3s on Cars.com. Every day I get e-mails like this. So GT3s are not following the overall wholesale trend.
Last edited by Carlo_Carrera; 02-20-2023 at 07:37 PM.
Ive been trading the markets professionally since 1984. The reason that I dont place any value in the points that you've repeatedly tried to make is because youre constantly comparing "apples" to "oranges" in your narrative and youre always conflating.
You also dont seem to recognize that there is no other car in the GT space that comes close to offering the performance of a GT3 at this price point. Thats why dealers have been able to command an ADM. Period.
As for reversion to the mean, that sure didnt work out well for Long Term Capital Management.
Wow, Double Ds, that's pretty weak sauce. I actually chuckled when I read this. I'm "constantly" comparing apples to oranges and I'm "always conflating"? You and I both know that you're really reaching now. That's okay, I understand - what else can you say in response except to make conclusory baseless statements?
Um, no, I appreciate the fact that the GT3 is a car that punches above its MSRP weight, and I don't mind paying something above MSRP for a used one. There are, however, other cars that I'm also looking at, McLs in particular, that are coming down in price on the resale market below MSRP, which is tempting.
I understand why you paid an ADM, and I have no qualms with it. However, I'm in a different situation/life stage than you. I don't mind waiting. As it turns out, based on what I anticipate financial conditions will look like later this year, I'm perfectly good waiting to see where prices go. As you know, I think they will continue to go down, not only for GT3s but most other high-end cars (Cue up posters saying "you're always going to wait on the sidelines, you're missing out on life while I'm driving my car, you're a poseur, blah, blah, blah"). I'm still completely puzzled by a subgroup on this forum that feels this need to criticize others who have a different view. Sorry if you feel b*tt-hurt over things and want to believe that the GT3 is worth way over MSRP, but hey, that's your problem, not mine.
Wow, Double Ds, that's pretty weak sauce. I actually chuckled when I read this. I'm "constantly" comparing apples to oranges and I'm "always conflating"? You and I both know that you're really reaching now. That's okay, I understand - what else can you say in response except to make conclusory baseless statements?
Um, no, I appreciate the fact that the GT3 is a car that punches above its MSRP weight, and I don't mind paying something above MSRP for a used one. There are, however, other cars that I'm also looking at, McLs in particular, that are coming down in price on the resale market below MSRP, which is tempting.
I understand why you paid an ADM, and I have no qualms with it. However, I'm in a different situation/life stage than you. I don't mind waiting. As it turns out, based on what I anticipate financial conditions will look like later this year, I'm perfectly good waiting to see where prices go. As you know, I think they will continue to go down, not only for GT3s but most other high-end cars (Cue up posters saying "you're always going to wait on the sidelines, you're missing out on life while I'm driving my car, you're a poseur, blah, blah, blah"). I'm still completely puzzled by a subgroup on this forum that feels this need to criticize others who have a different view. Sorry if you feel b*tt-hurt over things and want to believe that the GT3 is worth way over MSRP, but hey, that's your problem, not mine.
When people make that argument, they seem to assume that the person currently has no fun cars to drive, which I think is probably the exception rather than the rule. I too am looking at McLarens, and may grab one if prices drop to a tempting level.
Sure, but did you look at the reason why? Dealers are loading up on stock for peak spring selling season. Just because whole prices are up it doesn't mean retail prices will match the increase. Demand will determine retail prices.
I signed up for price alerts for 992 GT3s on Cars.com. Every day I get e-mails like this. So GT3s are not follow the overall wholesale trend.
OTOH, those prices are still well above MSRP, and there will inevitably be some price drops on a regular basis for such a large pool of cars, especially when the asking prices started so high.
OTOH, those prices are still well above MSRP, and there will inevitably be some price drops on a regular basis for such a large pool of cars, especially when the asking prices started so high.
Sure, but the prices are clearly trending down, down, down, and have been for months. That is all I was saying.
Ive been trading the markets professionally since 1984. The reason that I dont place any value in the points that you've repeatedly tried to make is because youre constantly comparing "apples" to "oranges" in your narrative and youre always conflating.
You also dont seem to recognize that there is no other car in the GT space that comes close to offering the performance of a GT3 at this price point. Thats why dealers have been able to command an ADM. Period.
As for reversion to the mean, that sure didnt work out well for Long Term Capital Management.
Originally Posted by Manifold
When people make that argument, they seem to assume that the person currently has no fun cars to drive, which I think is probably the exception rather than the rule. I too am looking at McLarens, and may grab one if prices drop to a tempting level.
I agree - I think some think a GT3 is the end all, be all. It's a great car, but there are a lot of other cars that are fun to drive as well.
I agree - I think some think a GT3 is the end all, be all. It's a great car, but there are a lot of other cars that are fun to drive as well.
If someone loves the car so much that they have no interest in any other car, I say good for them, they're lucky. But they should understand that liking a car for the road is a matter of personal preference and relatively subjective, with no real objective metric by which to rank cars. I'm cursed with liking variety, resulting in my having too many (11) cars at the moment.
According to Mannheim, used car prices at the wholesale level jumped a surprising 4% over the last 2 weeks. But Im sure one of the usual "suspects" will dismiss this data point.
Let's hope that trend does not continue and inflation keeps heading lower towards 2% because if it begins to flatten out or even rise the Fed will respond with bigger rate hikes which will cause more pain down the line.
Sure, but did you look at the reason why? Dealers are loading up on stock for peak spring selling season. Just because whole prices are up it doesn't mean retail prices will match the increase. Demand will determine retail prices.
Yes, I read the article.
It spoke about the lack of "leased" vehicles becoming available due to the pandemic which reduces supply.
Perhaps you read a different article than me.
So the 2020 plunge in car sales meant that few people were signing up for three-year leases on new vehicles, contracts that would normally be coming to an end now and in turn feed those vehicles into the supply of used cars on the markets.
"The repercussions of the pandemic are coming through," Drury said. "The supply is definitely not going to be there." The disruptions in the car markets in 2020 and early 2021 could affect used car prices much of the year.
"We are entering a period of tight supply on 3- and 4-year-old vehicles, which make up the majority of [used] car sales," said Michael Manley, CEO of AutoNation, the nation's largest car dealership, in a call with investors Friday. "And that's going to impact wholesale prices and ultimately, retail prices."
It spoke about the lack of "leased" vehicles becoming available due to the pandemic which reduces supply.
Perhaps you read a different article than me.
So the 2020 plunge in car sales meant that few people were signing up for three-year leases on new vehicles, contracts that would normally be coming to an end now and in turn feed those vehicles into the supply of used cars on the markets.
"The repercussions of the pandemic are coming through," Drury said. "The supply is definitely not going to be there." The disruptions in the car markets in 2020 and early 2021 could affect used car prices much of the year.
"We are entering a period of tight supply on 3- and 4-year-old vehicles, which make up the majority of [used] car sales," said Michael Manley, CEO of AutoNation, the nation's largest car dealership, in a call with investors Friday. "And that's going to impact wholesale prices and ultimately, retail prices."
Ok, so for two months there might be a slight decrease in the supply of used cars coming off lease, and I stress the word "might". But again just because whole prices are up it doesn't mean retail prices will match the increase. Demand will determine retail prices.
And as the Cars.com e-mails from yesterday and today I posted show 992 GT3 retail prices are not following the overall wholesale increase and aren't GT3 prices what this thread is about?
Last edited by Carlo_Carrera; 02-20-2023 at 09:18 PM.
When people make that argument, they seem to assume that the person currently has no fun cars to drive, which I think is probably the exception rather than the rule. I too am looking at McLarens, and may grab one if prices drop to a tempting level.
Of course you are.
You're the guy that claims that your dealer hasnt been selling to non-VIP's
You're the guy that claims that you're #1 on your dealer's list for a GT car at MSRP.
You're the guy that claims to own 11 cars now but cant post a pic of any GT cars.
You're the guy that has posted over 200 times since Thanksgiving warning of people of a recession and telling people to be PATIENT and wait for ADM's to come back down.
And yet you went out and bought a Porsche TTS and for some strange reason . . . arent able to post a pic of it as several here have requested.
Ok, so for two months there might be a slight decrease in the supply of used cars coming off lease, and I stress the word "might". But again just because whole prices are up it doesn't mean retail prices will match the increase. Demand will determine retail prices.
02-20-2023, 03:39 PM
