Guest89

I posted some stuff over the past month / 6 weeks ago in this thread about McLaren’s (potential) financial difficulties. SSO contributed some good stuff too.

I have continued discussing the issues facing McLaren with a few friends who either work for OEMs (e.g., ex PE guy in an interesting role at a German automaker) and an equity research analyst who covers the auto sector; the future will be interesting for our friends in Woking, I believe.

On the specific ownership breakdown, I suspect that the 300MM GBP injection of capital was a rights offering based on verbiage in the press release announcing the raise (i.e., ownership composition likely unchanged).

flsupraguy

Lol no. I'm not anti trump I just dont buy the mainstream agenda. I think the end game is for the fed (which is really the large banks that run this world) to be the lender to everyone for control.

Waxer

I take everything with a grain of salt too initially but some facts are inescapable and well established. There are many facts that prove the CCP is responsible and culpable. Just some are:

1. Started in Wuhan province. Lab originated and less likely wet market originated. If wet markets were the source then explain to me why they are up and operating again. It’s either wet markets weren’t the source and they know it or they just don’t give damn. Pick.
2. They deep sixed doctors trying to get the warning out.
3. They brutally locked down Wuhan province to domestic travel but at same time permitted international travel in and out. What else would you need to know really?
4. Lied about infection rate and death rate.

If you have info it originated elsewhere and the CCP is not the evil nefarious actor I am convinced they are please enlighten me.

flsupraguy

You are clearly missing the point. There is little doubt things started in Wuhan. The question is who is behind it....

Waxer

Sorry. Maybe I am missing it. Are you talking about:

1. being behind the narrative of where the virus came from i.e. lab or market?
2. Allowing it out of China?
3. Using to lock down the world and give politicians the power to control us and reform our lives to their liking under the guise of an “emergency?

Yeah so much good stuff to choose from.

jgorscak

Guys this was an excellent thread but your taking it south with this politics crap. Let's stick to cars

Waxer

Sorry..

Back to the regular programing..

FLGT

thank you!

cadster

I certainly agree with you on the Ford GT. When I recently got mine I was shocked by two things: how relatively slow it is, and how much I loved it. Compared to my 812 and Performante it’s sllloooooowww, but somehow it doesn’t matter. It’s a total blast. Hand shaker, no nannies, iconic, timeless, truly end of an era. It’s quite literally the automotive antithesis of the 720S.

kart driver

The logic is pretty simple. Faster car doesn’t necessarily means more emotions. There are so many other components, which have more influence on it.
If a car is just a faster car then it brings more emotions for a week a two. Once you get used to the acceleration the WOW factor is gone. There should be something else to keep your heart beating.

But to understand this a driver needs to experience different cars and to come to a conclusion after a certain period of time on his own. Maturity comes with time ))

groundhog

Of course I didn't answer your questions - these are major global issues that need to be addressed in a mature manner not swept under the carpet. Your questions trivialised these major issues and didn't deserve an answer. So you're not going to get one.

I'd rather discuss the joys of Mclaren ownership and am more than happy with my 720S. Moreover, I'm looking forward to the release of the 765lt - on that note do you own a Mclaren?

groundhog

Sorry but your answer doesn't make sense - there are fast cars that are engaging and there are slower cars that are engaging. Next you'll be telling us the Pista isn't engaging or the 765lt wont be. There are plenty of facets to engagement or emotion however, the simple dictum that gets repeated in the forum is that faster cars are less engaging - I happen to disagree with that as a general dictum.

Plenty of Porsche owners keep telling me that my 720S isn't engaging - I find that hilarious because (a) it is and (b) I can compare directly to my II series 3RS. Now according to many GT3 manual owners both of these cars aren't engaging lol. Again its just nonsense.

The 720S in particular has a suppleness and balance that no Porsche I have ever driven can compete with - then there is the explosive acceleration, again perhaps the 2RS can match this in part. But thats about it. Furthermore when the 765LT comes out - there will be nothing in the Porsche line up that is comparable.

Again that car will have the triple purist sins of turbo charged engine, dual clutch transmission and HP to burn and yet it will follow in the footsteps of the 675lt and 600lt. To put my comments into context the car I drive the most is a 981 GTS and I'm very close to a lock on a manual Spyder. Of course the purists will knock the latter because it doesn't have the 4L lol.

In reality, the engagement comes from picking the right tool for the right job and then using it in the right place.

yesyoucan

People usually side on price as the main reason as to why they have what they have...It's a pretty short conversation in real life when people are discussing why they have a certain car or why they don't have a certain car.

Some are stuck in the older cars and never going to go into the newer cars (not sure why they even make so many negative comments about cars that they have no interest in). Manufacturers spend millions on marketing, research and development. They know what their customers want when new cars come out... and none of them are getting slower. The uproar of customers/buyers if the newer cars weren't faster/engaging would be deafening.

720s/Pista are fantastic, fantastic cars.

groundhog

I think its interesting psychology - and you're correct, cost cuts to the chase very quickly - its like the endless debates you can have e.g. you could have bough a gazillion miatas for the price of a 720S or does a car that cost 100% more than this car deliver an equivalent performance engagement factor increase. It simply doesn't recognise the fact someone may want something that has a unique design, look or colour........and they are happy and able to pay for that luxury.

Recently, I made the mistake of taking my 720S to a charity event held at a University (it was a cars and coffee for breast cancer) - so I thought I'd take a nice car down and pay an entry fee (I donated 1k). Big mistake, the key word being University. Needless to say I copped a fair amount of guff from various students largely in good spirit (but some definitely not), but the piece de resistance came from an academic who lectured me on how my car was "drive by wire" and that if I tried his 996 Carrera manual I would understand what a drivers car was like and how Porsche get a connection with the road (there is a whole world of Porsche owners that are like this). I just held my tongue and politely nodded - I felt it would be equally obnoxious of me to say one of my other cars is an RS lol. Some people are strange and often just envious. I have noticed the world is split into those that give you the thumbs up or the finger as you drive past.

As a general rule, I suspect those that say the 720S isn't engaging probably haven't driven one or perhaps have only done a short test drive. I think Mclaren are on a good roll and have developed some great cars in the last few years. I can easily see why someone who owned a RS would go with a LT and vice versa. Just different ways of skinning the same cat.

I would say the 765lt is a step up over anything Porsche is making currently - its certainly something I would be interested in - it will build on the lessons learned from the 675lt and 600lt (and Senna) - so its going to very good.

The other question that should be raised is where is Porsche going - Taycan turbo S.....great car sure, another GT3 with mild upgrades, another GT3 RS with mild upgrades - where is the wow factor? Thats really something that Ferrari and Mclaren deliver......Porsche not so much.

kart driver

Different strokes for different folks.


For me personally Group 1: 570s, 720s, 911 turbo s, 488 (excluding Pista) are not the type of cars, which I would ever consider being enough emotional for me.

Group 2: 600LT, 765LT, GT3 manual, GT3 RS, 458, 488 pista are the ones.


And I would always pick any of the group 2 over any of the group 1 no matter that it may be significantly slower than that from the group 1.